What's So .44 Special

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PaulG
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   At the risk of showing my very limited ballistic and sixgun experience, and having Sixgunner and or others here forumally (get it, FORUMally) rip my head off, I'm going to ask the question, what is so special about the .44 special? I mean a gun dedicated specifically to shooting the .44 special. I realize the .44 special round itself has a lot to offer as a self defense round and hunting round. I see so much of Sixguns.com and this forum dedicated to Elmer Keith, but didn't he devote much of his time pushing the .44 special to what is now magnum limits? And wasn't a result of that R&D the Smith & Wesson model 29 .44 magnum? I don't quite understand why someone would purchase a handgun specifically for the .44 special when you can have the .44 magnum and also fire the .44 special. Is it a personal preference or is there an advantage that is hidden by my ignorance. Please let me take cover before shooting back. Thanks

Chris3755
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Read Skeeter

Go to darkcanyon.net/skeeter_skelton.htm and read what he says about the 44 special, then you will be able to debate sixgunner. Chris

PaulG
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ok

   Is there any information that's not 30-40 years old? I'm not looking for a debate. Everyone has their favorite firearms and calibers and I don't argue the ballistic capability of the .44 special. I just wonder why pick a handgun made specifically for the .44 special round. It seems there are several fans of the Smiths built specifically for the .44 special, why not go with the model 29 that can do double duty? Is it a personal preference or is there a mechanical advantage to having a .44 special specific handgun? I guess the same question could be asked of the .357 magnum/.38 special and probably many other calibers.
   I know we all like to daydream and take trips down memory lane with our favorite writers. If you want a handgun or any gun for that matter that your favorite writer loved and it gives you the warm fuzzys then that's great. I don't own any guns because they were anyone else's favorites. The guns I own are tools that work well for me and I am comfortable with. Is a Glock as beautiful as a 130 year old Colt SAA fully engraved or is the AR as prestigous as Roosevelte's Winchester? I say no. But if I'm hitting the streets and neighborhoods where meth and pill addicts are lying in wait for their next victim then the Colt and Winchester are at home in the safe, the capacity, reliability and latest technology of the Glock is on my side. If all I have is the Colt and Winchester then that's what I'll use.  Guns are tools no more, no less. They can't hug your neck or dry your tears, they can't tell you they love you when the weight of the world is on your shoulders. That's what our wives, husbands, kids and families do. I spend as much time as I can with my hands on my Hi-Power so I can confidently defend what truly matters in my life. My family.
   I digress. I read a letter that Roy Huntington (Handgunner and Guns magazine editor) answered once. There was a vigorous debate in one issue about the state of cowboy action shooting. He wrote that if you don't stir the pot once in a while then a scum starts to form. I guess I'm stirring the pot.

admin
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I'll try to keep the boss from ripping your head off!

Good question, Paul. (Good for starting an argument anyway, your my kind of people!) 
I'm no expert, but just looking at the offerings today, (IMAO), you can get a pretty nice, light, accurate, well balanced sixgun capable of everything but "Full Blow" 44 mag performance in a SAA sized cylinder & frame. I'll leave the accuracy debate of having the right length cylinder for the .44 Special round to those of us who are capable of shooting accurately, (my .44 Special loads are accurate enough for me out of my 629, and I do shoot it in competition), but jeez, I shoot 4000+ 44 Specials a year, and maybe 400 44 Mag (revolver) rounds, ZERO Mag rounds out of the 629. Maybe the question should be "Why a .44 Mag?" (Anyone have a nice moon-clipped Smith in .44 Special for sale?)
PS Dark Canyon has a great site, I second the motion you should check him out!

admin
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30-40 Year Old information

That's current events for some of us, we are still reading Mr. Keith's Articles from the 1920's & 30's! Good info is good info, regardless of the date! (Not to rip your head off or anything.....)
Al
http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/
 

countrygun
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I had a bit of an historical

I had a bit of an historical perspective all written up and my other computer ate it when I submitted it---Poof!
 
Let me, if I don't offend the powers that be, take a stab at your questions
 
It is rather easy to see the .44 specials advantage if you throw in two things. Reloading andstaying above .40 caliber.  As a bit of a disclaimer I think the 38-40 was the "best" of the "two gun" rounds (the other two being the 32-20 and the 44-40) the .2 offering was nice out of a rifle but lost too much in a pistol and had to really be loaded down later on. The .44 was gtreat in a pistol but didn't gain as much in a carbine. It was a case of the 32 making it's bones on velocity and needing a long barrel and the .44 making it's bone on weight and diameter and not needing the longer barrel. that makes the .40 cal 38-40 the best of both. That is just purely an un scientific opinion.
 
To the .44 special. If one looks at, for instance, the S&W "N" frames. You have the .41 mag (My "Pet" pistol round) Not that popular and not a lot of versatility in factory loadings. You have the .45 Colt. It is slightly handicapped for reloading because it is a bad thing to exceed the factory limits in the "N" frame so, other than bullet shapes there isn't much to improve. Until the advent of the "Mountain gun" Smith .44 magnums were all of the heavy barrel variety and many prefer the "skinny" barrel of the mod 24 type.  To take the Ruger side of the equation, until Lipsey's decided to talk Ruger into making the Flat top "Retro" .44 special (Thank you guys, got mine) good gunsmiths were doing a brisk business turning old Flat Top .357s into .44 specials. Why? you ask.
 
The ,44 special, having an nominal diameter of .429" is able to acheive a higher ballistic coefficient with a lighter bullet than the actually much larger .45 Colt. given the same diameter cylinder the .44 will have more steel aroun the case as well, although no reasonable handloads make an issue of that even in the Rugers.  I have more than one gun in each of the 41., .44. 45 calibers except the special I am limited for the time being to the Ruger Flat Top, why is the "Special" Special? I've kinda danced aound it but part of it is the guns themselves. As I said I can do more with the .44 in a Smith "N" frame than I can with a .45 Colt (not that I push things at all) It will still weigh less than a Magnum either .41 or .44. The Ruger Flat Top? well 'Nuff said.  I started with the Ruger .45 Colt in "heavy loading" and it always seemed to me that it's "little brothers" were a bit more efficient and reached their best accuracy with much lighter bullet than the .45 but still heavy enough to do anything I want done.
You will also note that the .45 colt isn't a Charter Arms offering.
 
I really think all of the big bores are best suited to the handloader and give similar guns all of them are capable of equal accuracy on the good end of the scale, but for some reason I find it easier to get there with the .44 special than either the .45 or the .41 mag. You will note that I excluded the .44 mag and that is simply because almost all of my handloads are more in line with what Elmer Keith asked for rather than the The "magnum" they delivered. That is it's own story. But suffice it to say my "Magnum loads" run a 250 gn or heavier around 1.200 fps or so. I think of it as the "Keith extra special" rather than the "Remington Magnum". I do shoot the full stuff enough to keep one of the anniversary Flat Top magnums around with a 100yd zero for the heck of it. 
 
I hope some of this made sense.
 

SIXGUNNER
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TO PAUL G

THIS SAME QUESTION COMES UP AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH ON NEARLY EVERY FORUM. I SUSPECT YOU HAVE A DOZEN OR SO ALIASES. THERE IS NOTHING MAGICAL NOR MYSTICAL ABOUT THE .44 SPECIAL JUST AS WITH THE .357, .44 MAGNUM, .45 COLT ......
NO ONE CAN EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT IS SPECIAL  ABOUT THE SPECIAL (ALTHOUGH  COUNTRYGUN MADE A GOOD TRY). YOU EITHER DISCOVER IT YOURSELF OR YOU NEVER WILL KNOW. MY FIRST .44 SPECIAL WAS A PRE-24 SMITH & WESSON IN 1959; MY LATEST A NEW LIPSEY'S BISLEY MODEL  FLAT-TOP RUGER EARLIER THIS WEEK. THERE HAS BEEN SOMETHING OVER SIX DOZEN IN BETWEEN. IF I FIND ANOTHER ONE TOMORROW I WILL BUY AND WON'T FEEL AT ALL OBLIGATED TO EXPLAIN TO ANYONE WHY.
IF YOUR HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE---WONDERFUL. CONTINUE TO ENJOY SHOOTING.      

SIXGUNNER

Chris3755
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Pretty Much Sums It Up!

Glad to see you weren't skeeered away Paul. Chris

PaulG
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No aliases and ain't skeered

   I am here to learn and sometimes in order to learn you have to ask questions. I believe Sixgunner was at one time a teacher and from my humble and inexperienced 46 years in this life I have learned the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. It seems when you challenge a persons beliefs and ideals you get to know a lot about the person and about their passion for the subject at hand. I have only been a member of this forum for a few weeks and if I had taken the time to research past topics I would not have brought up this topic because my question has probably been answered more than once. My apologies if I have offended any of you. That was not my intention. But as they say the road to hell is paved with them.
   If I can be perfectly honest with you all and myself, I believe there is some envy involved in my thought process. You guys have worked hard for your guns and your knowledge of them. I think I'm just a bit jealous. Especially of those belonging to Sixgunner. I have read your articles about the long wait and hard work to arrive at a point in your life where you could afford some of your dream guns. I know my earning power is limited by my choices in life and unless I'm willing to do the hard work needed to grow my earning power I'll always be where I'm at. I wouldn't give up my Smith for anything because it was a gift and that's why it stays in it's box most of the time. I hope one day I will be at a point in my life where I can afford a Hamilton Bowen or Gary Reeder custom. But until the kids are raised and the truck paid off I'll be wishing upon a Sixgunner star.
   I thank all of you for your input and I'll take my somewhat bruised ego and put some ice on it. You can't teach somebody something that knows it all already.  The Bible says that a wise man accepts correction. Today I am a little bit wiser.

PaulG
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sorry

I didn't mean to post twice. My ego ain't that big. My computer skills are that limited.

Chris3755
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Glad You're Here

Thanks Paul, and nobody is mad at you, we're all glad to be here and share with each other and you are as welcome as anyone else.. Keep on posting. Chris

SIXGUNNER
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TO PAUL G.

YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT HOW MUCH $$$ YOU WILL HAVE WHEN THE KIDS ARE OUT ON THEIR OWN. OF COURSE, THEN YOU MAY HAVE TO HELP THE GRANDKIDS THROUGH COLLEGE. THREE OF THE GRANDKIDS GRADUATE COLLEGE TODAY; TWO START THIS FALL.

SIXGUNNER

cowdog
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glad you are here too

Paul G-Keep on posting. This is a real friendly and  laid back forum. Very much unlike other gun forums.

No shame in not having expensive custom guns.  I only got lucky enough to inherit a couple and buy some back before they got expensive.  Many days I have the most fun with my Taurus 94 .22 or my Pietta 1860 Colt repro.
Richard/Cowdog

BTW Cowdog is not an Internet  alias,  Some people call me that in the real World :-)  

PaulG
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Thanks

   Thanks to Chris and Sixgunner for your kind words. I guess familial responsibility never really ends.  My son is the last one to go. He is 16 and plans on joining the Marine Corp after graduating. The other kids (3 of them) didn't graduate high school and I'm ashamed to say depend on welfare to feed themselves and their kids. The wife and I have worked hard and struggled to give them a good home and a good example. We are God fearing hardworking parents with three kids that just didn't get it. I love them but they have made their choices and unfortunately they will have a long and hard road ahead of them.
   Our son likes school and competition shooting. He loves the Lord and his country and has made a decision in his young life to serve the country that has given him so much. I'm sorry for getting off the sixgun topic. Thanks for listening.

countrygun
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I wish my first answer had

I wish my first answer had not "gotten "et" by my other computer. While it was merely a history of the cartridge and my experience with the "big bores" it was also, by and large, material that is available by reading the published works of the professionals. What I would like to have saved was the last paragraph. I talked about how, in my years around guns and shooters, I have rarely seen a group quite as "civillized" ans the big bore wheelgunners. Seriously. Get around the "high speed" dudes and their plastic race guns and mention that you like the Springfield when you are in a crowd of Glock owners. Try to explain the .40 S&W in a room of .45 or 9mm owners.  Heck big bore revolver shooters even let .357 mag shooters into the clubhouse, once in a while. The "BB" guys, in my opinion, have a better handle on the similarity of their choices than do other shooters. Most of them handload and really grasp the difference between .429 and .454 or rather the similarity. A lot of them have hunted with their guns and have seen the effects and can talk about it from first hand experience. At the risk of sounding like a snob about it, I have seen so called "practical handgunners" get into knock-down-drag-out arguments of the merits of this caliber, that barrel length, what bullet, and neither of the combatants has ever fired  a shot in anger or at a living target in their lives. They tend to live in a theoretical world, and they take their theories to be holy writ. I have been taken to task by some of them because, get this, my experience "Just Hunting" with a handgun was not as valid as their research and reading of someone elses interpretation of yet someone elses "studies". You really don't find that kind of thing in the BB wheelgun fraternity. You will find a lot more "When I..." and " I was using..." than "studies show..."  I have never, ever, seen BB guys get to name calling over the difference between the .41 and .44 mags, but  try out the subject of 9mm vs .357 Sig in some places and watch the fur fly. 
 
It isn't a terribly long or difficult initiation process, there is actually very little hazing, the dues can be a bit high if you you don't pace yourself, but I can honestly say, that I have never met a shooting fraternity that is more easy going.
 
OK, my weekend sermon is done. I am just one of the choir that snuck onto the podium.

admin
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Settling the debate

008.sent

mworkmansr
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One more thought

Whenever people talk about caliber and type of handgun, my mind just drifts back to Elmer Keith's Sixguns and Hell, I was there. he probably was witness to more real handgun action than most anybody. Montana was still wild and wooly when he was young. He based his thoughts on experience.
That's not to say that I don't have at least one of about every caliber. However most of them are inherited or curiosities. The ones I shoot the most are 1911's and 44 Specials. They always get the job done.

Don't worry. Be happy.

countrygun
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The timing of this thread was perfect

My mentioning, to my wife, of my delight in my Ruger Flat Top .44 Special, and my moaning about how much I liked the Charter Arms Bulldog that a friend owned some thirty years ago, paid off tonight. Yes there is a Bulldog in the house. Life is good.
For quite some time I have been using a polymer framed, very small slabsided, brass chucker in .45 as my "stick in a pocket" gun. No it is not one of the highly talked about brands but it works quite well. It has a serious flaw, in my opinion. it's not a revolver. I am known to prefer a large caliber revolver for most of my shooting these days. Now if the day comes that I am called out of my super secret retirement program to assist a super secret, anti-terrorist, hostage rescue team to aid a damsel in distress I can assure you, I have the appropriate hardware for the task. Walter Mitty and I will be able to respond in proper style. These days however my life is much less hectic than even the most sedate of my youthful fantasies and a five-shot, .44 Special should be able to handle anything I could dream up at my age and would definitely handle anything, other than big game hunting, that I have actually done to date.
 
I suppose it's not very trendy, not very "tactical", but that is OK by me. To make life better for my .44s this summer, I also happen to have just stumbled into a situation that involved the liquidation of the estate of a gunsmith (long story) but among the gems I acquired, at really nice prices, was a fine Lyman bullet mould of the Keith design for the .44. (just out of the way of brag I also netted a mould for hollowpoints for my 45/70 and a mould for making my very favorite .38/357 158 gn SWCHPs). I intend to have a busy summer.
Really the Bulldog is an absolute gem to me. In my youth it and the Star PD were the most coveted small pistols. Most of my fellow shooters back then owned one or the other. We were those kind of guys who listened to the "old timers" when they talked about what made a good caliber. It just may be possible to go back to the "Good Ol' Days". I think that today people have changed their ideas about what they think they need, but I am not so sure the need has really changed. 

cowdog
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Bulldog you say?

Countrygun, I looked at a new Target Bulldog at the NRA show and have been contemplating taking a  bite on one.  Is it a new one, or the older model? Charter has had several incarnations.

countrygun
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This is the brand new 2 1/2"

This is the brand new 2 1/2" variety. I never messed with any of the other incarnations since the original, but this one seems to be, going from memory, better built but I do miss the 3" barrel.
 
I rarely quote or cite reviews since I make up my own mind (And these days you can find reviews on line about shoelaces, from guys who probably wear slippers) but a number of folks have said they were surprised by the accuracy and especially with handloads that match up with the bullet weight and velocity the rifling twist seems to like. Without going in to detail a report like that gets a bit of credibility in my book. In my little pocket of experience, big bore revolvers tend to be less finicky than small bore high velocity rounds. Little differences don't seem to bother them as much as their high strung little brothers.
 
Anyway, SWMBO had pretty much overlooked the Bulldog in "her" shopping for "her" collection. But now that there is one in hand she has struck up an interest and I see a Target model looming on the horizon plus, possibly, another "Pug". I have to say the action is a bit on the rough side and "stacks" in stages, but I have already begun the task of "Breaking it in " and she has turned that job completely over to me (Darn it). A Python it isn't but after just 50 cycles last night I detected improvement. By coincidence I have the mould I mentioned and have some new cases on the way. My plan, at this point, is to load with a lead SWC 240-250 gn at a skosh over 800 fps and try it out. I really don't plan on using the lighter JHPs unless the gun itself shows a preferrence in that direction. Those SWC loads would also be nice plinking and practice loads for my bigger .44s so if it works out it's a "Win/Win".

cowdog
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thanks

thanks!

You are right, a 3" barrel would be a nice option on the new ones. 

cowdog
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Big news!

Countrygun,
I just spoke to Charter Arms on the phone. The three inch bulldog classic is returning and will be shipping in about two weeks!
http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Bulldog_Classic.html

It will be an exclusive offering through Ellett brothers distributing. 
http://www.ellettbrothers.com/DealerLocator.asp

This  just solved my indecision between the 4" target and 2.5"  models. 

Frank V
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Some of the things I like

Some of the things I like about the .44 Special are:
You can get guns that are a bit smaller, & lighter than in magnums
You can get guns that are really pretty small (5 shot) guns for concealment & they are still a powerful gun (Im thinking of the Charter Arms Bulldog)
Now there are some factory loads that really get the .44 Special into the MAJOR class without handloading for carry or hunting
I can handload ammo that is really so easy to shoot it's almost like shooting a .22LR or I can safely  load ammo that gets almost into the magnum class.
In a good well set up gun, the .44 Special is very accurate
I also have to admit there is some snob appeal in carrying & shooting a .44 Special.
Frank

"U.S.A. RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!"

countrygun
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I have to agree with Frankv,

I have to agree with Frankv, I have been messing around with my new Bulldog for over a week now. It makes a nice companion to my Flat Top. As soon as we get a break in the weather that coincides with some free time, the handloading begins. I just love the idea of a 240 or 250 gn KSWC at a safe, e yet effective velocity. I just don't see much I am going to get into these days that pistol won't get me out of. Unless the squirrels and such around here start wearing "hoodies" and flashing gang signs, I figure their "tagging" my birdfeeder is pretty harmless and I don't have to worry about driveby's.

mashaffer
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Would it be safe to say that

Would it be safe to say that the .44 Special is a really well balanced round especially for smokeless and the .45 Colt is a really well balanced round especially for BP?
mike

www.keepingsundayspecial.org

If we the people harbor covetousness in our hearts we will be ruled by thieves.

Mak
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Haven't read anything by

Haven't read anything by PaulG in a while, wonder if we ran him off?
Anyhow, in my opinion, both cartridges are well balanced with smokeless, or black. The 44 did start off as a black powder round, as did the Colt.

Kaytod
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Since this has been

Since this has been resurrected, I'll chime in.
Apart from the nostalgic allure that most (non believer) folks percieve with the 44 Spl, MAShaffer has touched lightly on the subject. Balance. There is something slightly tangable about anything that is 'right'. The Spl fits into the Colt SAA and Ruger mid frames nicely and gives you that feeling of being 'right'. If you really want to hurt yourself, try on in the Freedom Arms 97. (In my opinion 'right' is an understatement in that combination.) The 44 Spl is nicely at home it the little Bulldog too. It's another thing that is just 'right'. All these platforms seem to have struck on the balance of power, portability and the proprotional relationship between cartrige and platform. That is the allure of the 44 Special for me.
 
 
 

roundball
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I look at this caliber stuff

I look at this caliber stuff with a certain "so whatness." Found that my elderly four screw Model 29 Smith worked very well-exceptionally accurate-with lead SWC's  firing Special cartridges. Also lucked onto a 624 some years ago. Actually shot Bullseye matches with that gun. The Special is a grand old cartridge. Overtime, I have had several Charter Bulldogs that worked very well. What ever cranks your tractor is a sound rule dealing with handguns. If you don't like it don't buy it!

Roundball

Mak
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Don't forget the intangibles

No one shoots wheelguns anymore because they believe they are on the cutting edge.  Today, that category is reserved for other guns. However, those who choose the revolver, and revolver cartridges have a few things going for them that the plastic autoloader crowd will never have-for one, cartridges like the 44 are extremely flexible. They can be loaded to take Elk at realistic ranges, all the way to low recoil target work. They can be loaded for man, for beast, for paper, and all work fine in the same gun. No one in their right mind would choose a 9mm autoloader-or any number of other well known brass chucker cartridges-to bag an elk, or expect their highly tuned race gun to function for self defense. I believe it was Robert A. Heinlein, noted science fiction author, who once observed..."specialization is for insects". Other factors include the lives of admired men, like Mr. Keith, and Mr. Skelton, who lived the 44 and breathed mystique into it. There is something undefinable, yet very real in sharing the history with folks like these. Now, this is not knocking the 9mm, but the 44 has graced the chambers of the best guns made by man, also the most beautiful. Let's not forget these intangibles.

Frank V
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Yes, and it's just FUN! FRANK

Yes, and it's just FUN!
FRANK

"U.S.A. RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!"

Amityslim
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Philosophy

Way back in college,  I chided a philosophy prof for smoking bourbon-flavored tobacco in his pipe. I extolled the virtues of the Balkan blend or a fine Virginia. He squinted at me over the tops of his glasses,  through the smoke,  and said "Keith, there's no accounting for taste."
 
Can't add much to the great comments made already, except to say half tongue in cheek that the .44 Special sounds good. The .357 Mag is great. My next-to-latest is a 6" S&W 686, hammer nose square butt type, on which Cylinder & Slide milled off most of the underlug for me. Great balance, fine piece, about half way to Skeeter's self-designed ideal sixgun, maybe.  But I gotta admit, a slightly nasty crack. The.44 Mag walks on water, for sure.  After this I'll probably go handle my 4" 29-2. Nice full very loud boom, though not tonight in the gun room. But the .44 Special--latest is a Lipsey 4 5/8" Bisley--sounds full, rich, and PLEASANT. Let us not forget audio.

Keith
NRA Benefactor Life

mworkmansr
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Nasty crack is right

Keith;
You are on the money about the 357. II bought a nice Herter Powermag in the mid 60's  in 357. It just plain hurt the ears to shoot it even with earplugs. Between that and the ability of the Lubaloy bullets to spread lead in the bore like cream cheese on a bagle kept me from shooting it as much as I wanted. Then, I found a nice New Service in 45 Colt. It was a true gentleman. An authoritative voice and a quiet strength showed me the way. The only thing I regret is that the same coubtry store had a triple lock in 44 special right beside the Colt for the same price. Since I was uneducated, I picked the Colt because I had been given lots of black powder ammo by an old ladt neighbor. Oh, well, maybe the Smith was bought by a nice guy and has been pampered.
I have just about every revolver caliber, but I shooot the Special more than any other. The 357 is just too much agitation for such a tiny bullet.
 
Mike

Don't worry. Be happy.

roundball
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44

Just got back from the range from shooting my Super Blackhawk. The handloads with 255gr. bullets did an average of 1350 fps. Have no loaded any .44 Special recently. This was a nice way to spend the morning. This outing confirmed my belief that 44 Special is one world and .44 Magnum another.  One way I have of getting leveled out on these issues is to have one of the guns-what ever it is-that will allow me to have real world experience. This applies even to the tupperware wonders. 

Roundball

countrygun
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As a teenager I had a series

As a teenager I had a series 70 Colt and at the end of my teens picked up a S&W 27 5" and a Ruger Security six snubbie. It was hard for me back then to compare an auto to a revolver, but at that time the "big fight" was .357 V .45 acp"  . I bought a Colt 1917. Given that most "famous writers" kinda hinted that the useful performance was about the same, they just went around the bush in different directions (big heavy, small fast) After I shot the '17 a bit it became a "no brainer" to me. I decided that, given the effect, on my end of the gun, if the big slow bullets worked I'd go 'round the bush that direction.

Amityslim
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Freedom

Fellas, this may sound like forum newbie corn. Hope not. Be a shame if it did. I thank God I live where I have these easy choices, and can have open, good-natured "arguments" about calibers and favorite guns, and go out to the range or boonies or back forty and use 'em. Or carry 'em to protect life.  Or put food on the table. Too bad most people in the world don't.

Keith
NRA Benefactor Life

admin
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forum newbie corn...

...is perfectly acceptable here, what ever it is. Welcome to the forum.
Al

Frank V
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Amityslim Not corn at

Amityslim
Not corn at all!
Welcome to the forum. Enjoy it.
Frank

"U.S.A. RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!"

Amityslim
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Joined: 01/09/2012
Thanks, Frank. Glad to be a

Thanks, Frank. Glad to be a member.

Keith
NRA Benefactor Life

DennisE
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Joined: 10/14/2010
They are special just cause

They are special just cause they're easy to reload and fun to shoot...and oh yeah, they're a very accurate round!  Dennis

unrepentedsinner02
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Joined: 01/20/2012
44 enough to still have fun

Folks I do a little shootin now and then whooped my share of bottom feeders with all their fancy toys all with a s/w mod 64 double action with a 4 inch barrel , but my real joy comes from wheel guns that start 44 and above . Never felt under gunned even with a single action and like most I've had a s&w 1917 a s&w 625 mod of 1989  still got my charter arms bulldog with the 2.5 inch barrel and of course two single actions in 45 colt.Don't get me wrong when lead needs dispensing I'll go to my bottom feeder but they mostly get used by friends who are still learning how to shot a real gun. 

Unrepentedsinner02

Mak
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Joined: 03/01/2011
Bottom Feeder?

Ha! Never hear of the term being used to refer to autoloaders-just real unsavory types of humans!

william iorg
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Joined: 08/21/2010
The .44 Special will meet 80%

The .44 Special will meet 80% or more of a handgun hunter’s
needs. For hunting deer and smaller critters the .44 Special will handle 100%
of your energy requirements.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

If you are following the .44 Associates thread you
will see that EK’s top loads gave his 250-grain cast bullet a little over 1,000
fps and he found this adequate for most of his shooting. EK did not start looking
for a .44 Magnum cartridge, he wanted a “+P” load for the .44 Special. The
ammunition manufacturers could not do this do to the older firearms still in
use at the time. When the .44 Magnum hit the streets EK wrote of factory
ammunition being loaded to too high a pressure and velocity. EK felt his
250-grain bullet at1, 200 fps or a little more was suitable for all of his
handgun needs.

I have both 44 Magnum and 44 Special revolvers. My
most recent is a Lipsey Ruger Bisley in .44 Special. My Bisley has a 5 ½”
barrel and is small enough and light enough to be a good belt gun for wearing
around our property. Most of the loads I carry in this revolver are the Lyman
429421 loaded to a little over 850 fps. I need to speed these up as my front
sight is not tall enough for this load.

 

There is a considerable amount of writing on the
current .44 Special and its handguns and modern loading. An internet search for
the Lipsey .44 Special will bring up at least two Taffin articles. I don’t have
them in front of me but one good one is “Defending the .44 Special” or
something to that effect. You should find this article very informative.

The 44 Special handguns are often – but not always,
somewhat shorter and lighter. These smaller revolvers are easier to carry and
shoot for a “little guy” like me.

I have a full wadcutter mold from Lee and often
shoot the full wadcutter from my .44’s using light charges of Bullseye, this
covers most of my plinking requirements. I have quite a number of .44 caliber
molds but my dream bullet for the .44’s and the ‘32’s is an LBT Ogival
wadcutter which would cover all of my handgun hunting and recreational
shooting.

I am a big fan of the .32 H&R Magnum and the
recent 327 federal. I often find myself shooting 32 S&W Long cartridges or
the magnums loaded down to this level. We don’t need to singe the hide from a
jack rabbit and not every shot needs to sting our hands.

Read the introduction to the .44 Associates newsletter
and you will see that even they knew there was no need for excessive pressures
or the highest possible velocity. If you will hunt down the April 1960 issue of
Guns magazine you will see EK writing on the 44 Magnum in a way that most young
shooters have never seen. EK knew what was required power wise for all around
shooting with a sixgun and he felt the manufacturers were overdoing a good
thing.

EK, Charles Askins Jr. and others would have been
shooting the 460 and 500 S&W cartridges if they had been available but they
would have told us the truth, this amount of power is not required for 90% of
our shooting and fewer than 25% of us will be able to master cartridges of this
intensity.

EK often wrote he did not believe the handgun was a
primary hunting firearm but one of opportunity. The sixgun needs to be small
enough and light enough to carry comfortably while doing other tasks and yet
still powerful enough to take game when the situation presents itself. EK felt
rifles were for deer hunting.

I hope you are able to find enough stuff to answer
your question. I’ll enjoy watching this thread over time.

 

Slim

Frank V
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Joined: 02/21/2011
William, I enjoyed your

William, I enjoyed your post.
I agree the .44 Special is sometimes smaller, & lighter to carry all day.
Now that Ruger has brought out one in the Blackhawk, it's a great packing six-gun.
Elmer did say that a six-gun was a gun of opportunity. He seldom if ever used it for a primary hunting gun.
He was always armed & lived in an era & place where shooting was available to him. 
He became a fantastic shot & wrote honestly about his experiences. 
I enjoy the .44 Special with his Unique load, It's powerful enough for me for about 90% of my shooting needs with a handgun.
For a nice easy to shoot, accurate, mild, load  try 4grs of Trailboss under a good 245gr bullet in the .44 Special. You won't get a double charge either, it'll fill the case about 3/4 full. I like it a lot.
Frank

"U.S.A. RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!"

william iorg
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Joined: 08/21/2010
Trail Boss is also a good

Trail Boss is also a good powder for our average shooting.
I sometimes get amused when reading posts on the internet as many believe EK
shot full power loads continuously in his firearms. EK wrote that a constant
use of the high pressure factory loads would loosen a S&W revolver over
time. EK’s review of the then new Super Blackhawk or Ruger Dragoon as he
wished it were named, repeated these thoughts.

The first edition of the Lyman cast bullet handbook
has an article on loading for the 44 Magnum by EK and he describes three levels
of loads. One load using Hercules Bullseye, another using Hercules Unique and a
third using Hercules 2400.

EK had already written these thoughts for the 1958
Gun Digest in his article “The .44 Magnum… One Year Later.” Fun Stuff.”

Slim

Chris3755
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44 Associates

For those wondering about the 44 Associates there's an interesting post over at Single-Actions forum about a paper written back in 1945 by 44 Associates, check it out if your interested, be sure to go all the way down too as they reprinted the article in Word format. Chris
http://singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=reloading&action=display&thread=6871

william iorg
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Joined: 08/21/2010
I had the wrong Lyman book

I had the wrong Lyman book quoted above, it was not the Cast Bullet Handbook.
RELOADING THE .44 MAGNUM
By Elmer Keith
Lyman 42nd Reloading Handbook, 2nd printing, September 1960.
Just for the record, I worked 30 years to get the .44 Magnum produced, both gun and load. All credit for its appearance is due C. G. Peterson and Gail Evans of Remington (for bringing out the load) and to Carl Hellstrom of Smith and Wesson for bringing the Remington and S & W people together to produce the proper gun for the load. S & W sent me the first .44 magnum made. Remington forwarded me the first lot of ammo in plain, uncolored boxes. Both the gun manufacturers and ammunition makers did a wonderful job. I tested the first Remington loads, and still have a few. They gave about 1400 feet velocity and proved very accurate since then, velocities have been boosted too high, in my opinion, for soft factory bullets. Keyholes result with about one out of every ten shots, as pressures now seem too erratic and high for a six-gun. Recent tests of loads made over a year ago showed an average 1605 feet velocity, pressures which ran from 39,000 pounds upwards, and variations of over 11,000 pounds . . . far too much for best accuracy. After all this time I still prefer the hand load I worked out for reloading the .44 magnum, just after it came out. It gives around 1400 feet velocity with just under 34,000 pounds pressure, and only 3,000 pounds variation as tested by White's Lab.
I neither like nor use any gas check bullets in revolvers. Their place is in rifles, and auto pistols. The factory .44 magnum bullet is a thin part-jacket, not a gas-check cup. This is necessary with soft factory bullets to hold the rifling and, at velocities now being loaded, should even be a longer jacket than it is. True gas-check cups do not upset to fill chamber throats and seal off gas as they should. The best load I have found uses Keith
Ideal bullet #429421 cast not softer than 1 to 16 tin and lead. Many use the bullet 1 to 10, however 1 like it around 1 to 16 tin and lead. Bullet should be sized .429", and I use Ideal banana Lubricant. The .44 case is heavy and must be full-length resized. On account of its thickness, the inside expanding plug e should never be over .423". I find even .420" works very well since you must 1 have a very tight fit, case over bullet, before the heavy crimp is turned into the crimping groove to hold the bullet against the jump of recoil. Thus, you prevent it moving forward to tie up the revolver by protruding out the front end of the cylinder, to say nothing of causing a change in the pressure of the load. I also like my original design of this bullet in 250 grain weight, best with square bottom grease groove.
For a light gallery load I use 5 grains Bullseye. For outdoor targets, often 8.5 grains Unique is used. For the full load, 1 use 22 grains Hercules 2400. This is the load for which I gave pressures and velocities above. Another load I have used is 23 grains 2400 with Keith Ideal 235 grain hollow point and hollow base bullets for about the same pressure with slightly higher velocity. The 250 grain Keith bullet and 22 grains 2400 has now killed about every type of game on this continent and is wonderfully accurate lo any range. Machine rest tests often showed five shots in one hole at 25 yards. I do not believe the handloader has any business exceeding these loads.

Slim

Frank V
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Joined: 02/21/2011
I carried & used a .44 Magnum

I carried & used a .44 Magnum for years. Most of my loads were in the .44 Special range. I shot a lot of .44 Mags. with 8-1/2grs of Unique. That came out to about equal to the Unique load in the .44 Special. It served me very well for a long time.
Very few of us really need the power of a .44 Magnum, most of the time a .44 Special will serve as well or better & I like the lighter .44 Specials to carry all day much better.
Frank

"U.S.A. RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!"

countrygun
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Joined: 12/08/2010
It is so nice to hear people

It is so nice to hear people who know what the .44 special is all about. Folks not consumed by 'magnumitis". Very refreshing.

Chris3755
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Joined: 08/02/2010
Oh Well!

I wanted to refrain from jumping in but as I said before and in other posts as well "There is nothing pleasant about shooting 22.0 grains of 2400 and a 240 grain bullet in my 44 SBH!"Elmer thought it was a great hunting load and it is surely that but you don't really want to sit at the bench and put very many down range for fun.......Most of my shooting with the big Ruger is 44 special, pleasant, accurate and no problem shooting 50 rounds at a time without a sore hand. Just my opinion here so don't get mad. Chris

Mak
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Joined: 03/01/2011
44Magnum

I have always liked the 44 Magnum. For a long time it was a 250gr bullet at truly astounding velocities. Today, the 44 is much, much milder of an animal, yet even so often is too much for many handgunners.
In the days of my youth, we would take hours and just shoot big bores loaded to the gills-FOR FUN!
It was especially fun to hurl heavyweights down range in a Virginia Dragoon-the grip frame very close to the FA, and quite pleasant when the fire leaps out of the muzzle.
Nothing is the same anymore, however. 44 Mag ammo has been reduced from rip snorting to confident. The 250 SWC has been replaced by the JHP 10 grains lighter, velocities now clip around 1200fps where they once reached 1500+. Yes, there is handloading, and this is the refuge for the King of magnums.
Last time I shot 44 Magnum factory loads, I found them very mild mannered and genteel. The late model 29 with the idiot hole filled with the moronic lock mechanism barely even bucked, and hit everything it was pointed at. If you load your own ammo, the 44 Special gives up very little compared to current magnum factory loads.

unrepentedsinner02
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Joined: 01/20/2012
want bang for my bicks

 
Folks want to really enjoy the cartdridge as it was meant to be load up with triple 7 or pyrodex p pleasant to shoot easy to clean and boy I love the fire works .Even out of a moderen D-A revolver , I feeel that I'm unleashing a real bullet. what say thou, if ya never done it I do advise you make several rounds for testing as it can be addicting after the first shot and it just amazes the life out of the bottom feeding crowd 

Unrepentedsinner02