Cartridge Boxes... Creating new "Old Stuff" for kicks and grins.

...like I already didn't have enough projects!

that I can "multi-task" are absolutely gun related. Everything else has to be done start to finish, one at a time.
 
For those interested, I will send you a Word document that contains all of the labels. So far, I have only cleaned up and sized the .45 Colt (the SAA box) and the .38WCF. I will let everyone know when I have the rest of the labels cleaned up by posting such on this thread. Once I have them done, all I will need is an e-mail address to which I can send the Microsoft Word document. I will send all of the labels in one document, so the user can have all of them for present and even future use.

BTW, Al... I am still trying to get to the Post Office. Will let you know something ASAP. Sorry for the delay.

Great idea Raven. Love those old labels. I did buy some Ultramax simply because I liked the old look of their packaging. Your idea is quite nice. Chris

Great idea, I would love to have all of them, Where did you get the cardboard? Hotload45@yahoo.com

I'm glad y'all like these... Let me get them all cleaned up and I will send them out to all that would like them. I will include an instruction sheet that will help you make the boxes, which will include measurements for the top and for the bottom, as well as illustrations.

The materials are very basic... The chipboard (heavy cardboard) was found at my local "Hobby Lobby" crafts store. But you have to know where to look: it comes out of the picture framing area and is found in the "matting" stock. It is a big sheet, 1/8 of an inch thick, and makes for a sturdy box - actually a whole bunch of boxes. The top and the bottom (they are different sizes - have to be in order to fit properly) are each  made from a single piece of cardboard, with the ends and the sides folded (after you score the cardboard with a box-cutter) and then fastened together with regular white glue and rectangular cut pieces of craft paper (found in the "shipping" supplies area of the same store - it is used to wrap packages before mailing). Once the top and bottom are complete, they are then covered on the outside with craftpaper. That done, you place your cut out label (with the back coated with a thin layer of white glue) on the box.

Don't stess over these instructions here... I will make another box and take pictures of each step, explaining as I go over that step in the instructions.

There is also a way to seal the boxes in true historic style using a piece of cotton twine. The entire box is covered, with the twine sticking out of a seam and anchored inside the box. When you pull the string, it tears the craft paper at the seam, allowing the box to be opened. This is the way it was done in the old days, so the box didn't open up in the cowboy's saddlebag leaving all the rounds rattling around in the bottom of the bag.  While it is neat and correct, it doesn't lend itself well to reuse of the box since the craft paper covering gets torn up and frayed...
 
Y'all just call me Mike...  Raven6 was my old radio call sign, and I use it as an identifier on every forum I'm on.

Raven6;
That was a truly inspired idea. I like to know there are cragtsmen like you still around. Please email what you have to me at MWORKMANSR@GMAIL.COM
 
Mike

Mike, this is really great!For years I've looked at those old cartridge boxes, and just thought what a loss it is to craftsmanship, and to taste that today, we don't have anything close. Sure, some of the "cowboy" loads come in nicer boxes, but still, nothing like how it was done. Hats off to you.
Please let us know when you are ready to send this out.

First, I need to ask if everyone will hang in there with me on this label project...  I am in the process of opening up a new retail gun shop, and am trying to beat the hunting/Christmas seasons. After 4 years in the planning stage and looking for the right location, the perfect spot just became available.  The good news is that I now have over 200 labels from an unbelievable number of companies and in a huge number of calibers.  I even have labels from the old combustible envelope cartridges for the cap and ball revolvers...  (Those inspired me so much that I had to buy the paper and go down to the reloading bench and "roll-up" some cartridges for my 1860 army .44 and my old Griswald & Gunnison .36.  Saves a lot of time at the range, but you won't break any speed records at the reloading bench!)
 
Second, I would like everyone's input on what they like to see in a gunshop from the standpoint of "the way things used to be - when people still cared about their customers" instead of the "burn 'em and spurn 'em - get their money while you can" attitude that is so prevalent today.  My model is based upon the gunshops I used to frequent with my dad when I was a kid.  I've even got a 6 foot oak table up front so that people can bring in their lunch and escape the office for at least a little while...  This was the way it was when I was a kid.  The gun shop was not just a "go in, buy, and leave" place.  It was a meeting place, hosted by the owner of the shop.  New guns, old guns, hunting, ammo, reloads, hunting, sports, politics, all sorts of "manly" discussions took place...  It was, in today's terminology, "a man cave away from the home man cave."  Because of that atmosphere, you always felt welcome...  All cussing and controversial discussions stopped when a child or woman entered the shop.  Folks knew each other...  There was never any doubt as to where you would go when it was time to purchase a gun, because you really knew the guy behind the counter, and you knew he wouldn't try to burn you on the price.  And you didn't mind paying a little extra because, after all, this was your place to "hang out."  The community into which this shop is going is just the right size, but some of these people have never seen a shop of this sort.  SO...  What do you folks look for in a gun shop that makes you want to hang out there, shop there, and feel like you're comfortable there?
 
While I can't bring back the smell of fine pipe tobacco or good cigars (not without losing the parents that have their kids with them - TN state law prohibits minors from entering establishments where smoking is allowed), I can at least have the good old aroma of Hoppe's #9 wafting through the shop, along with good coffee for all...  (So okay, there may be a little residual pipe smoke from a "Pipeworks and Wilke" blend left over from my time before the store opened, but what the hey....)  I would truly like to hear your opinions on stuff you miss seeing in a gun shop...
 
I guess by now you folks have figured out I really liked the way things used to be done!
 
Thanks,
Mike

Sounds like you have a good idea of what a shop should be! My #1 for a gun shop (or any business) is a knowledgeable person behind the counter, that  acknowledges you when you walk in even when bs'ing with the customer in front of the counter. Nothing I hate worse then being invisible.
I also agree a person shouldn't mind paying a little more then they would at welfare-mart,  and as you get to know your clientèle, keep up on the little things that'll keep 'em coming back. Pretty tough to compete now days with the Internet on big purchases, but the friendly service and "Stop in and stay awhile" attitude aught to help.
Another thing, IMAO, would be an interesting inventory over a massive inventory. The more fingerprints you have to wipe off the better.
Again, good luck!
Al
PS, when you get back to the ammo box project, I'd be happy to set up some pages with instructions.

I agree about the knowledgeable person behind the counter as well.  That will be me... for the most part.  It has taken a bit of self-pushing to get me to this point, but I've had enough support from family and friends telling me that they always see me as the "go to" person when it comes to firearms questions that I now tend to agree with them.  I've always been my own worst critic...
 
When checking out my future competition, what I found was store personnel that ignored me for way too long - if they ever really got around to speaking to me.  I went into one of the "tactical - high speed, low drag, combat weapons" shops and walked around for 20 minutes without having ever even gotten a "hello".  That one was staffed by a couple of guys in tactical pants and black polo shirts with the store logo embrodered on them.  Then there was the guy that told me that I could shoot .38 S&W, .38 S&W Special, and .357 Magnum all in a S&W model 13.  Well he was partly right, but I can't forgive him the .38 S&W mistake.  But the real unforgivable sin from that guy was when he told a customer that they could shoot modern loads in an old Demascus barreled shotgun that he was trying to sell them as a real shooter.  (Sounds unbelievable, doesn't it?  I couldn't believe my ears.)  He didn't give a care about that person's health or safety at all.  I pulled them over to the side and told them that the gun would be there the next day if they really wanted it, but that they needed to go home and do an internet search on Demascus barreled shotguns and read up on them first.  I advised them that, even though I didn't know them, I hate to see anyone lose money or worse - get hurt.
 
The plan is to carry a good variety of guns with a little something that appeals to everyone...  We really don't have anyone that caters to the revolver people or the cowboy action shooters.  Everything is "tactical, tactical, tactical."  While I am not going to shun anyone that is looking for those tactical arms with a high CDI (chicks dig it) factor, there is just so much more out there that people could enjoy - it's going to be my job to introduce them to it.  I also don't plan on stocking a huge inventory because that drives up prices - those inventory guns cost me money everyday when just sitting on that shelf.  That means I am not going to tie up money in "dust catchers" that won't move, when I can stock real "movers".  I have a good wholesaler that can send me anything I want over night.
 
I have an experienced, well known and appreciated, gunsmith that will make repairs and do custom work as needed.  And this guy is not a "gun plumber" that just does the old "remove and replace with new part" routine.  If you give him some quality steel and a nice piece of walnut, he can build you a gun from scratch.  He knows that what ever leaves his shop has his name on it strictly by association, so he is a perfectionist.   I once jokingly said something about shimming a S&W cylinder in order take out some fore and aft play - he looked at me with horror in his face.  His response:  "No...  You have to pull the yoke and then lightly peen the end of the yoke tube over a numbered drill bit that fits tightly inside the tube.  This stretches the tube, and then you dress it out properly by hand.  Of course this opens up the barrel to cylinder gap, so the proper thing to do is then set the barrel back to get gap closed up.  And oh Mike, while the barrel is off, we might as well recut the forcing cone so that we can get the revolver's groups tightened up a bit!"  Now, he could have just said, "yes, the shims will fix the revolver" and dropped the matter, but he hates seeing someone take shortcuts on repairs.  His believe is that there is the "right way" and then "every other way". 
 
This is going to be one of those places, the likes of which the discussions will be centered on topics originated by the likes of Elmer Keith, Jeff Cooper, Peter Capstick, JOHN TAFFIN!, and others...  Then things such as NFL, MLB, the bar-b-que from the restaurant down the street, etc.
 
As soon as the label stuff is complete, we'll set up those pages...  I think that would be pretty cool...
 
Mike

Mike,
I think Al is right, the biz is tough. My ffl. is also a friend, who has been around for 30 or so years, and he says two things off the bat-the gun biz is dangerous, and impossible to make money. He stays in because he offers a transfer service that most store fronts find an annoyance.
Your description of your store sure sounds wonderful, and I have to say, it makes me wish for such a place to exist out here! I think real gunsmith services will definitely be a drawing card, especially if you can get the word out. In my opinion, customer service is where its at. If you can get the products and the gunsmithing your clientele wants, they will have reason to stick with you. No big box store will be able to match this, they will only be able to offer lower initial prices.

The problem today is largely with people. So many are taking cues from government and banking, they think that lying and cheating are legitimate methods for getting what they want. I won't say much more about this, except-beware those on the make.
I think everyone is hopped up on " tactical", because they all want to emulate the movies and TV. I find that most people who go for the "tactical" thing don't have the slightest idea what they're doing. They've been sold by others that they have to have an AR with $2,000 worth of doodad add ons, because it looks real neat on that magazine cover, not because they really need any of it.
One of the things that brought me here to the new Sixguns, was just that-sixguns. Yep, I'm one of those dinosaurs that actually prefers my sidearms with cylinders. I've had my fling with plastic pistols, they are pretty good for what they are intended, but they simply are not capable of providing the power required by the outdoorsman, with the protection required by all of us. Still, I have visited entire gun shops that did not have a single wheelgun under glass, or do not have one single example of historic arms made by Colt.
What moves me in a gun store is the nod to the past-tradition, not as some stuffy thing for old men, but in the sense of keeping the best things alive. It sounds like you are right there, and I hope your store is a long term, resounding success.
Best wishes.

Thanks for the feed-back.  The biggest thing I've had to really convince myself of in this venture is that I can be of help to the customer that needs advise or instruction about what will best work for them.
 
Ever since I was a little guy, our house was filled with books and magazines about guns...  My dad even had a very large closet/small room that was his "gun room", big enough for his steamer trunk full of different revolvers and gun cleaning supplies, and a couple of people to sit in comfortably - and on the walls were pictures of beautiful SAA's of various barrel lengths and finishes.  It was a big deal to a little kid to be let into this "inner sanctum".  I say this in all modesty:  Because of the books and magazines, I was reading on a fourth grade level by the end of my first grade year.  I just devoured this stuff.  My dad was a charter member of the Tennessee Gun Collectors Association which meant he had free admission to many of the gun shows in and around Nashville - and I was right there with him.  I studied everything I could find and, because I grew up out in the country, any time not spent reading about guns was spent out walking the hills and dirt roads with a rifle and dad's H&R Sentinal revolver.  Low and behold, when I got into high school they had a rifle team...  A 25 meter competition using a small bore, heavy barreled Winchester allowed me to really see what I was capable of in the accuracy department, and I finally found a "sport" in which I could take on all comers with complete confidence.  Our coach was an Air Force Team shooter that actually took the big prize at Camp Perry one year, and he introduced me to the 1911 in the form of a gorgeous Gold Cup.  Well...  That was it for me...  "Had to have one of those!" and it was my first purchase of a handgun.  The price was $385 out the door for a new government model Colt.  I got a call the next day from a worried gun shop owner asking me to please bring my father down so they could get the gun put in his name - I was only 19 and they thought I was 21, not having looked at the birth date I had listed until after the shop had closed...
 
Thus began my handgun collection... and it filled with semi-autos for a long time.  I too had that "revolvers are outdated" attitude for a while...  I still feel a little ashamed at how I would give my dad a hard time about "those old Colt sixshooters" being behind the times...  And that old S&W 1917 was about as ugly a gun as I had ever seen - the finish was gone (but it was internally perfect.)  I tried to bring him into the 20th century with the gift of a nice S&W 659, but he still carried one of those blooming S&W standard barreled model 64's.  Sheesh!  (Idiot Mike didn't think about the fact that his issued sidearm as an officer in Nashville was a heavy barreled model 64 and that perhaps he was playing it smart by carrying that with which he was so familiar.)  Then I ran upon a model 629 that had been fired only 12 times by its purchaser before he had to put it on consignment due to money issues.  Too good of a deal to pass up...  I went back and started studying up on revolvers - only this time, I really paid much more attention.  Now, I have more revolvers than semi-autos...  I have to use the semi-autos in my everyday job as an adjunct LE instructor around different parts of the country, but as a general rule I always carry a revolver.  My attitude has become "I have to shoot the semi-autos, but I get to shoot the revolvers".   This is because I came to admire the abilities of Keith, Jordan, Skelton, and many others...  and I have striven to reach their levels of proficiency.  I can ring the 300 yard gong on a regular basis with that first 629 and my own loads, and I think every day about the skills that went before me in the likes of those mentioned above.  When I tell people the story of E.K.'s 600 yard shot on the deer with a handgun, they look at me like I am out of my mind.  But then I back it up with an article written by our favorite sixgun writer, and explain that people often mentally limit what they can do with a revolver because they are still stuck in the "maximum effective range" mode of the semi-automatic.  I sometimes use the analogy of "distance shooting with a semi-auto is like miniature golf, while distance shooting with a revolver is like playing Augusta."  Revolvers to me represent a true dedication to the craft.  It is truly a whole other world that people would truly enjoy if they would only take the time to find out about it.
 
So all of this knowledge and love of the hobby is what I brought to the table about three years ago when a good friend of mine asked me to work his business for him because he had suffered a terrible injury to his right hand and arm (think chainsaw - he is okay now, though.)  He was on so much pain medication that he didn't trust himself to get out of the house - and I could understand that so I helped him.  After he got back the use of his hand/arm and went to his accountant, his accountant was puzzled by his injury and the fact that he had just had the best year in 13 years.  Before I started moving on this venture, I asked him for his input.  He said "Mike, if anybody can make this new shop go, it's going to be you."  That was what pushed me forward.  It's everybody elses confidence in me about this move that has me going for it.
 
Sorry for the long monologue...  I am just very passionate about the subject matter.
 
Mike

It sure sounds like you are ready, and if folks in your area are at all thinking, they'll spend their money at your place.
Best of luck.

...can do to help out, let me know.
Al

A nice big round table with plenty of folding chairs are very welcome in a gun store . people like gun talk . I also remember a  small meat case/cooler to store , bologna , sodas ,ect. I also liked a litarature stand for guns carried in the store or new gun releases . Keep your cases full of old and new guns .  John

Raven6;
First: where in Tennessee? I am exiled in North Mississippi where I have found exactly one gun shop worthy of the name. If you aren't out of range, I would be happy to do business.
Now: what I look for. After knowledgeable friendly service :
1) Cleaning supplies: good rods, solvents, patches
2) Reloading supplies: powder, molds, pots, lube
3) interesting guns new and used, along with willingness to trade and consignment capabilities.
4) Ability to recommend a good gunsmith.
One of my favorites is Bryan Buck at 3B's in Kaufman, TX. They cater mostly to CAS, but he is willing to find almost anything my perverted gun-crazed mind can conjure. I would take him as a good model to start with.
Good luck. I have been in the retail business in Montana, and it's not easy. However, I met most of my best friends as a result.
Mike
 

Mike,
Just stumbled across this old thread and am hoping the offer still stands to provide help with cartridge box labels. I tried to PM you but keep getting booted with an error message.
Thanks for the help,
Ken