Controlled Round Feed

I think I saw a post where he wanted a 50 cal AR. I think it would look odd with a lever heli-arc'd to the lower.
I better get over to the SCCA forums to see if they are fighting about fuel injection vs. carburetion. I need to know if I am a heretic for selling my last carbureted 'vette a few years ago and am lusting after an Alfa Romeo 4C today.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I've been trying to put Mak down gently but he keeps on coming back with those old Mauserisms. I second your motion to end this as a dead topic pending anything earth shatteringly new! Chris S

Mike is an SCCA competitor and he likes Corvettes?  Trouble in paradise.

Even during the years that Corvettes were called 'secretary cars', they still always took 1-2-3 in competition. One guy even usually ran his with the air conditioning. Even when Porsche cheated on their tires and shocks they were still relegated to 4 and over. Finally, they whined enough that SCCA created a new class that only Corvettes ran in. They're like Democrats; if they don't get their way and can't perform, they change the rules. Anyway, I'm serious about a Jag F-type and the Alfa 4C now, even if they're not carbureted like my old Stingray. If something's great, you got to like it.
Mike

PS: Right again, Chris. This thread has gotten much too long. Back to sixguns.

A Jag too?   Oh Boy. I've raced Cobras and Mustangs. Perhaps we can still be friends? It is the Christmas season you know?

The original Mustangs were cute. My wife had a red 68 when I met her. Mostly I remember having to get her unstuck when there was a half inch of snow. No traction. At the time I had the greatest American car ever made: 68 Charger R/T with the 440 block. Man, it loved the universe above 130 mph. Nice long wheelbase so it didn't turn ass forward like the Camaros that spent so much time in the ditch along the road to the radar site on the Canadian border.
And, I loved to see little airmen get an Olds 442 or the Buick twin. They would try to keep up with me until all the oil got sucked out of their block. Then, they got to stand there waiting for me to come back and give them a ride to town. Camaros weren't even no-shows.
I never liked vettes until I got to try a 72 with the L82 block. Then I was in love. Funny how we change.

Mike

I know what you mean about the changes we make, I never owned a Ford, I made fun of them until I got a whitewater jet boat with a 460. It was balanced and perfect. Now, everything I have is Ford or Ford powered. I must say that all my cars with manual transmissions do have Control Round Shifters.

We need a car topic for you boys!!!!!!! I guess that would be better than this old topic got to be!!!!!! Oh Boy! I just stepped in it again! P.S. I drive anything that runs and gets me there, I gave up my hot rod days when my 57 Olds Tri-Power threw a rod and I had to drive an old 53 Chevy to work. Sad I know. Chris S

Now that had NOTHING to do with this otherwise useful topic of CONTROL ROUND  FEED.   Lets try to keep on track shall we?

Yes Sir! I will never again stray! I must go nap now or I will become too tired to continue! Chris S

Since I moved from Montana to Mudhole, MS, the vette hated it. In 26 years, I never did more than change oil and replace tires. Within a few months in MS, I had to replace radiator, heater coil, alternator, windshield wiper motor. I still loved to drive it since the country roads here are pretty good, but I kept hearing rising levels of 'black snot' and 'plastic piece of shit' comments from my wife after I paid the shop bills. It wasn't black, but it had been when I bought it. She was mostly angry because when we would drive around in Great Falls, girls would walk up at stop signs and ask if I would give them a ride. Also, at 40 below, it would always start whereas her Caddy would have to be in the heated garage at those temps.
So, my sportster now is a '93 F-100 FWD with the 300 Cube 6. It has enough miles to have gone to the moon, but doesn't burn a drop of oil. It's great for tooling around the plantation, especially on the logging roads in the hill section, but it doesn't inspire on the highway. And we still need a big car like the Traverse to carry dogs and furniture around.
The problem with having a sporty car in Mudhole is the climate. Moss and mold will attack everything. You're lucky if you live where it snows.
By the way, I think the Alfa 4C is CRF since it doesn't have power steering. I think they did that so women won't want to drive one.
Mike

I live in God's Country but cars last as long as the winter snow then the salt from the roads corrodes the metal to hell and back! That's why the brilliant engineers at the car companies started using plastic on the cars wherever they could. A Delorean might be OK. Just kidding! Chris S

If you all want to chew the fat on cars and boats, its ok with me, just don't quite see how it fits in these pages.
Several posts back, there was some disparaging quip aimed toward Germans. I won't go back to try and find it, but I will point out that Granite Mountain Arms of Arizona is perhaps the current world leader in Mauser action manufacture for custom guns, thus the modern Mauser transcends any such national limitations. Further, the finest of English dangerous game rifles were universally built on Mauser actions, usually with Krupp steel barrels. From the new world to the old, Mauser has met with sensibilities from dozens of different nations, and been changed accordingly. If anything, Mauser is the worlds' action, and this is even more true today.
You can check them out at Granite Mountain Arms. com.

OK Mak, I don't recall any disparaging remarks towards Germans, (I am of German ancestry with a grandmother whose name was Kloppman) and I didn't see that. If you are referring to bad Porche comments, Porche sometimes deserve bad critiques! We never said we "HATED MAUSERS" just didn't get all giddy over CRF but that's why we are debating, contrasting opinions, until you go and get libtard on us again, accusing us of bad taste and all. Bring it on son we'll put you where the Mausers shine!!!!! Chris S

I wish I lived closer to MAK. He sounds like he needs a friend. Oh no, not me, I'd go find him one. Someone who likes CRF .22 lr's.

I think I was addressing German automobile engineering with my remark. It wasn't disparaging them. They are just a silly people. Whos else could take simple English technical terms and turn them into  a sexigesmic spitting contest? I've had my Porches and VW's, BMW's, and Mercedes. Never again. Their engineering is ridiculously overcomplicated and inefficient. That's why the vette rules. It's basically a very simple machine. As one of the AR manufacturers usws as a tag line; "every thing you need, nothing you don't".
And I haven't seen anything about boats here. My bass pond is too small for anything bigger than a canoe or johnboat. 

I think I may have to change my tag line. I've been outgrouched.

The boat comments were my fault and I'm ashamed. I would like to apologize for the boat comments. Now, for simplicity in automobiles, I have a basic car. Lots of power, no traction control, it's all up to the driver and his skill (or lack thereof) no power steering and no power brakes. There are some German vehicles I would like to take for a test drive though. And while we are talking about our European friends, I want to drive the Nurburgring badly.  I'm sorry about Mike having to change his tag line but it is a good man that can see and admit that he has been out done and I for one commend you!

I just got done watching The Guns of Navarone and those big rifles were definitely CRF the stuff Mike mentioned about the Battleships was in my head as I watched those guys load those guns.......Anyway I thought we were done here! Mike keep your tag line it's not for Mak. Chris S

I enjoyed all the humor in these last few posts.
Funny, too that someone thinks I need a friend!

Mike's point about German over engineering is unfortunately quite accurate, but it primarily applies to recent manufacture-post WW2. Yep, I am ferociously pissed off at times, and I do transcend the role of the grouch.

Yeah, Chris, most white Americans have at least some link to German ancestry. Today's propaganda circus wants us all to apologize and feel real bad about this, but I say to Hell with this. Personally, I see the endless Nazi hollyweird movies as just more crap to be subjected to the dustbin. 
Now, for those who must follow hollyweird, and feel bad about anything German, A-Square is officially, and totally defunct. Those German inspired Enfields that sported 26" barrels were gracefully remanufactured into magnificent dangerous game guns-well, they are now artifacts of history. The great cartridges, like the 495 A-Square, now languish in the netherworld.
However, CZ, the much maligned descendent of Brno, is still cranking out some pretty impressive modified Mauser designs. I have personally been on the search for a 550 model in the great 404 Jeffery. If I succeed, and get a chance to join the long history of English dangerous game rifles, I will post it here, much to the chagrin of everyone who realizes I'm friendless, eternally grumpy, and without apology for German heritage.

I think I'd rather run the bulls at Pamplona than trust a CZ. These are the rifles that have the unfortunate European habit of hanging part of the magazine out in the air like a prolapsed hemorrhoid. They appear to have problems escaping the look of Dutch Mannlichers.  I sighted in a new Marlin bolt gun for a guy today, and I have to say I was impressed at the smoothness of the action. And the precision was astounding. It sent three rounds through the same ragged hole after sighting was completed. I have never seem a CRF of any brand that was so smooth. Even my custom Springfield '03 in 338-06. Anything with that hanging tin on the bolt is going to be wobbly. Must be a feature.

Mike

Ow. My ass feels like a CZ magazine.

I feel that bulls pain! That is humor. To Mak I say my German side is paired with Scandinavian ancestry and as far as feeling bad about Germans, I only feel bad that they fostered the Nazi regime and if you think that is too wimpy I truly do feel sorry for you. My ancestors were not Nazi and they never condoned the acts of monsters, they came to this country well before WWI. I have always appreciated the heritage of meticulous attention to detail that my Hun ancestors bestowed on me as it helped me achieve some very nice stock and metal work when I wanted to do it. As far as A-Square goes some of the Enfield actions they used were of the P14 version and not the 1917 version. As you well know Mak some of the 1917 actions were prone to cracking if the barrel was unscrewed. De Haas spoke of this in his Bolt Action book. and I think Ackley may also have spoken of this. Whether the P14 suffered from this I don't know. As with any endeavor A-Square fizzled because of lack of sales, not many customers for mammoth slayer rifles. As for the old grouch moniker, it may or may not fit you but you are certainly in the running! I think it is much better to simply maintain a mild manner and decorum when dealing with people rather than fostering bad feelings. So, as always, I have to say this debate has been great sport! Chris S

Remington bought Marlin, which is owned by an even larger conglomerate. Did Marlin really design their new bolt gun, or is it just a Rem. in disguise? Either way, Marlin has a heck of hole to dig itself out of.

In terms of Nazis, the "monster" term is just another hollyweird guilt trip. We could go into history, genuine history, if this was the place and examine it, but most are content to accept and regurgitate the monster meme.

CZ magazines stick out?? We must be talking about two different things, maybe we're back to cars or perhaps its running with the bulls-or should I say bull?

I did take out my post '64 CRF Winchester the other day, and compare the action of the crf bolt with that of the push feed. Again, I find that anyone who prefers a push feed action is welcome to it. The push feed will work, if crafted correctly and well maintained. I have owned several Mauser type actions, however, and I have yet to find them wobbly, hesitant, or with magazines protruding at all angles. 
When the zeal and hysteria is removed from the discussion, the reason why CRF actions are still available is because they work, and fill a need. If one chooses to hold an opinion in defiance of this, then it is incumbent upon that critic to offer solid proof, otherwise it is mere heckling, which is unfortunately quite common online.

A-Square was recently purchased by sharps rifle co, which today just focuses on the AR platform. They have no plans to restart either the rifles, or the ammunition line, from what I've heard. Actually, according to Terry Wieland, it wasn't lack of sales that doomed A-Square, as much as a series of bewildering business decisions that sunk the ship. Yeah, the M-1917/P17 was reported to have problems at the barrel threads, such that some of the guns could not be saved from the refuse heap, but this seems to have been a minor problem, not a widespread one. Certainly, the Hannibal had no problems with reliability or quality, and today, it seems that well cared for examples command a significant price.
I may revisit my decision to post anything, should that 404 appear. I'm simply not sure doing so would be worth wading through the reaction. In the meantime, happy holidays to all.

Somebody has "issues". Mak, did you get beat up as a child and have your lunch money taken? There must be a reason for this.  And "online heckling"? I'd be more than happy to do it in person as well! I'm going to contact Dr.Phil at once. If anyone can help you, he can. At least that's what my therapist says.

Ever hear of Auschitz or any of the other camps throughout Europe before the Nazi regime was removed???? Hollywood may hype things all over but I think our WWII troops saw first hand what was left behind by death camp operators under the guise of following the Fuhrur.....I think I have exhausted my writing patience on this topic. Adios Compadres. Chris S

My father was always crabbing about the 'Heebs' inventing the death camps. He wasn't really a Naziphile, he just admired Erwin Rommel, and felt the need to make the Nazis seem nice. 
On a more important level:

Who could possibly have made these three egregiously UGLY rifles? Of course, this kind of crap can't be blamed solely on CZ. It seems that most of Europe thinks, like Fiat, that people will buy anything if it's ugly enough. The only American made rifle currently produced that could fit in this category, that I can think of, is the Ruger Scout Rifle.

Somebody should have shown Jeff Cooper an AR10 so we wouldn't have to see junk like this.

Mike

I was trying like hell to disassociate myself from this topic as I took offense when we got distracted by Nazi propaganda! I am a child of WWII and I had relatives, God rest their souls, who fought and even died ridding the world of monsters who would terrorize the world. I am of German ancestry but my ancestors predate the Horde by many generations and I am quite thankful for that. On a more serious note do I detect  CZ product that isn't CRF? I wonder if they are hedging their bets by making both versions of the bolt so beloved by some that they need to sneak in a push-feed under the guise of economy. I am much better now after a good stiff bourbon!!!!!!!! Chris S

Sure looks like you guys just want an argument. Doesn't matter what its about, as long as you as you can strut like roosters. For instance, EMK is all bent because somebody asked him to count to 11 and he had to take off both shoes and socks before he figured out he only needed to peel 'em off one foot. Not to be left out of the fun, Mike all of a sudden hates detachable magazines, while telling us all how much he loves the A R. Now Chris misspells Aushwitz, and wants to lecture me on the hollyweird ethos.
First of its too late for emk to develop any intelligence, too ridiculous to put up with bizarre contradictions in Mike's fantasy land, and way too much effort to even begin an authentic review of WW2 history.

Good night, and viel glueck.

Nice try MAK.  I'm going to make an accurate description of you. Your 4'11'', very thick glasses, your only experience with firearms is in your video games that mommy buys you so you will stay firmly planted in her basement because you have never left after your senior year (3rd grade). You throw YOUR opinions around, claiming our guns are cheap. That's ok, you are entitled to your opinions. But, you get bent because we also state OUR opinions. You are the one with the problems and, I bet you don't even own a coveted CRF in your entire collection of slingshots, bb guns and rubber army knives. Now, go set up your American Army soldiers, put on your Nazi helmet and get the rubber bands out and play away. And tell Adolf Merry Christmas from us.    See how this works? If you don't, and I doubt you have a clue, ask.....please!

Emk, when you are done playing with your propeller beanie in the corner, you might review your posts on this thread to note their vacuity. But then, this is doubtless too much to ask, since your brow has never creased with a thought deeper than breakfast. In the future I will only respond to posts that have content pertinent to the topic. Now don't forget to say excuse me when you appear in public.

.... to know how to spell a Death Camp name! Good one Mak, perhaps you can tell us more about your version of history, where did you get your education, I suppose Hollywood as you seem to be as good as Hollywood is at glossing over all you don't like. Your debating skills are right out of the libtard handbook, oops I suppose libtard isn't a word or I misspelled it. Sorry Mak . No matter how much you ridicule someone it won't make you better than they are. Good Luck in your future endeavors, I think you'll need it. Chris S

Why in God's name do you think I would care about you responding to me?   You are what is called a "poser". I am having fun making you look bad for the entertainment of others here and, if your not too dense, you can see that they are enjoying it as well   "Excuse me in public"? At least I go out in public. I also go out to hunt and shoot, that is, using my "el-cheapo" guns. I really doubt you have ever used a gun and just read (with parental guidance) and watch the gun shows on t.v. as your information source.  Here's an idea, post some current pics of you using these CRF's? Don't worry about what your hair looks like, polish up those glasses and put on your cleanest trousers and go have fun. We can't wait to see these. After all, it is you that says these are the only guns to have, yet I am doubting you? I'm sure that I share these sentiments with a couple others as well. But then again, if you don't respond, we understand why.

It's Christmas week. Let's stop picking on each other and enjoy being in a society where we can be crabby or opinionated if we feel the need. We can also give it a rest. Besides EMK; it's poseur, and there are a lot of them. Just chill and let it roll off. We know good guns when we see them, and we don't need to get  permission to buy them, or not buy them.
Merry Christmas

Mike

Thanks Mike, and a very happy New Year with plenty of fine bourbon! Chris S

For the rest of the year, I would just like to enjoy some Gentleman Jack on even numbered days, try a bit of GlenGrant single malt on odd numbered days, and biscuits, sausage gravy, and hash browns every morning. Nothing puts me in a good mood better than that type of routine. Then, in the afternoons, coffee with pfefferneuses and springerlies. Ja, das iss gut.
Mike

Enjoy your self satisfied nonsense, boys. Perhaps you think you have accomplished something, besides illustrating to the world that you are assholes?
Of the three of you, only Chris has ever offered any valid criticism of the Mauser action, and that was so brief that it was quickly forgotten. In conclusion, let's weigh in with Mike Roden, Danny Pedersen, and the late Fred Wells. They all agree that the Mauser action is hands down the best, most reliable, and greatest bolt action design ever conceived. Together with the historic firms of Holland and Holland, Westley-Richards, and WJ Jeffery, extended today to such notables as Reimer Johannsen, Heim, and Mauser itself, now under the helm of the Sauer conglomerate the genius and place of the Mauser is assured.
Now here we have the cheap shots, religious fanticism, and grovelling indoctrination of the three stooges to deride it all. One might simply ask, who the Hell are you? You are nobodies, pretenders to expertise that exists in your own alchohol addled minds.

One can view circumstances rationally, use evidence and review facts, or one can bloviate, disperse wive's tales, initiate meaningless and vacuous attacks. In case you haven't noticed, you don't exactly have a quorum of site members advocating for your selective versions of reality. This excuse for a debate has revealed a narrow minded stupidity that Europeans find typical of Americans-with good reason, I might add.
One little fact for you self congratulating stooges; a couple years ago, a group of PH's was polled for which clients they found to be the best marksmen. The question was divided according to nationality, and the PHs' gave the question great weight. In the end, American "marksmen" scored highest only for their hubris. The best shots came from Germany.

Some things never change.

Is there no time to catch the scent of burned powder? Other than that, excellent routine! Unfortunately, my frame would not handle the biscuits and gravy. It is a favorite but I need to get back to "sheep shape" for the next year.

Mike, the post I just made was for your comments. There is another post that was made before mine. I have listened to your previous post and also agree with you. The post I am referring to is #133 and 135. As for post # 134, fine bourbon is a gift isn't it? Nothing better!

except for the anger  of a fanatic.
Oh, well.

Merry Christmas

Mike

Just a quick note here on a truly fine rifle-the CZ 527, in 223 Rem.
I'd like to post some pics, but my 'putering has taken a definite step away from working. If you want to see this rifle, go to CZ-USA, and look for the 527 LUX. About the only difference between these photos and reality is that the real gun shows a bit a wavy-ness in the metal due to the hammer forging process.
CZ is, to my knowledge, the only company that offers a micro-length, short action, standard, and magnum length modified Mauser action.
What is truly great about this gun is its comfort and accuracy. I haven't scoped it, haven't even gotten rings, but then I am a bit of a throwback, as is anyone who relies on five or sixguns for their companions. Yep, I do rely on open sights, and all I did to sight in with standard weight bullets was to drift the rear sight a tad with a trusty wooden mallet. Add a quick adjustable Whelen sling, and this rig is in many ways better 'n' a 30 WCF for backcountry jaunts. Its light, nimble, and extremely accurate. Ammo is small 'n' easy to carry in bulk. Hell, when the black helicopters show up, I am ready.(Just kiddin'-right!)
I almost feel sorry for the Mauser haters here, because they will never get to experience such a great gun, but hey, thats' their choice. If I get up to speed enough for pics, I'll post 'em. 'Till then, Mausers forever!

Hi Mak: Glad to see you came out of your self induced rest recuperating from Mauser disrespect inflicted by some of us lovers of all things un-Mauser. 223, a little on the light side for a back country packing rifle. Don't worry about black choppers coming for you, they only go after Modern Sporting Rifle lovers! I would suppose it is great for chucks and stuff. I prefer Elmer's philosophy of using big guns for big game, they may be a bit heavier but they usually do the job with fewer shots than a .223. Good luck with that new CZ, Chris S

Thanx Chris.
I've figured out some of my 'puter problems, and got over a big mean on.
I tried, I mean I really tried to get myself into the push feed fold. I broke down. I talked to my wife, I said to God, why am I thusly afflicted?!?
In the end I realized I'm just an unrepentant Mauser man.
Blessed be.

Chris and EMF;
You need to check out the movie. My idiot brother brought when he visited a couple of years ago. He didn't catch the true depth of it. 
Anyway, I'm writing from the world of black rifles and double stack plastic pistols now. Since I already have the greatest rifles ever made of wood and steel, the Model 70 post 64, the Schultz and Larsen M60, and the J.P. Sauer Suer 90, I was at a stand still until I accidentally tripped over AR1's and AR10's (two of each). Accuracy and reliability from these has been astounding, even to a jaded curmudgeon such as myself.  Plastic pistols are a mixed bag, though. Most have triggers worse than cap pistols from the 1950's. I went crazy last week and bought 1) S&W M&P 9, 2) S&W M&P 22 Compact, and Sig Sauer p227 45 ACP. None are as good as any of my 1911 varieties. The little 22 is fun, though. Although, I am disappointed and shamed to admit than none are CRF. Not even the Sig, even though it's as heavy as an anvil. I mostly bought them for packing around the plantation in the ever present nasty weather because I don't like to carry my nice guns outside in the heat, humidity/cold drizzle, and rain when I walk my dogs. So they do have a limited place in the scheme of things.
And, besides, when I have visitors from communist countries like Washington State or China, I can turn them into freedom lovers by letting them shoot evil-looking firearms. 

Glad to hear from all of you.

Mike

Hi Mike, what is the name of the movie?? Love those heavy AR's and now in nice calibers like .308 etc. Chris S

Bubba Hotep, of course. Almost unknown, but unique. Even my wife loved it, even though she usually has strict requirements for movies, such as: kid with cancer, parental anguish, lots of shouting, no car chases, and no breast count. Luckily, most are digital because I would hate to think of trees dying to make film for tear-jerkers. Kind of like wasting good steel on 5 inch-long extractors.
Still got all my sixguns, though. As well as the beautiful leather. Wait a minute, even the Germans have given up on those. I've seen a potful of H&K rifles that are (gasp) push feed. And they're not cheap.

There is nothing worthwhile about CRF!!!!!!!!!!
Only the unholy beasts use them, and gasp, Love them!
Real men shoot plastic high cap contraptions!
Don't ever go to a Mauser, no matter what! Stay away! Stay very far away!
-the unrepentant Mauser man.

OK Mike, I actually did see part of it but didn't know the name. Turned it off after a bit for something else. Bruce Campbell was in some weird movies like the one where he goes back in time to medieval times with a chain saw and a car? What a hoot! Chris S

You should have stuck with it.
Mauser? Isn't that a breed of small dog that tries to catch mice? Barks a lot, too.
Actually, I like my '03 Springfield custom 338-06. A good elk stinger. And so much lighter and slicker than the Mauser 98.
But, my favorite is still the Sauer 90, 300 Weatherby. Retracting locking lugs, so it is smooth as greased glass. I guess some of those Europeans occasionally have an idea. Once every hundred years. I guess that's one of the by-products of socialism.
Oops. Sorry. I had my teeth sent out for sharpening, and I can't stop biting.
Right now, I'm working out fast draw from the Serpa holsters. The cottonmouths and rattlers around the ranch are beginning their Fall stirrings. There's a near-7-foot cottonmouth hanging around the horse field that I'm watching for. Two of the plastic pistols function properly with shot shells; the M&P 9 and the Sig P227 .45. My gun room is beginning to resemble crawdad gumbo; everything but a Webley-Fosbery is in there somewhere. I would get one, but they're not CRF. Guess Dashiell Hammett was a pinko.

Dash killed off the girl didn't he......... Wasn't the Webley-Fosbery a semi-auto revolver??? Or was that a different fly in the ointment? Age is giving me STML and it has good and bad benefits, oops, is there such a thing as a bad benefit? There I go again. It has almost totally erased CRF from my mind...... Chris S

I have only ever seen two references to the W-F automatic revolver. First; in the opening chapter of The Maltese Falcon. Sam Spade's partner was murdered with one. Second: I forget. I had a chance to buy one from Martin B. Retting in NYC in 1965 for the outrageous sum of $40. I passed because I was an idiot. Also broke, but that has never stopped me from buying a gun. The girl didn't get killed off; she just went to jail. Sam Spade said he would wait for her. What a romantic guy.