Trying to choose a SA sixgun

First of all you may have to go with your gut feelings on this. I bought my SBH 44 magnum way back in the late seventies and since I had grown up on Elmer and the 44 magnum,  that was it as far as I was concerned. I was looking for a S&W 29 but big bucks and a family made the Ruger the choice. I don't regret it but as I have aged some???? I seriously think I would love a 44 spl.(or a .45 Colt perhaps) as a full time hunting gun. There isn't a whole lot a good 44 spl can't do and if you get to that point then a 44 magnum may be a bit light too, what with 460 and 500 S&W's floating around. I think the smaller flattop is a neat gun and a better carry weight wise, but I don't have one. I am comparing it to my Colt NF 45 which is size wise close. So, it amounts to what size gun you want to carry around all day and a few ounces makes a difference. Just ask a guy who carried his SBH in a hip holster for eight days in the Bitterroots! Now as to sights, adjustable is the only way to go in a hunting handgun. Some will tell you "ain't so" but don't believe it. There are just way too many good bullets and loads to use that make adjustable the way to go. If you want a good Arizona hog gun I think the Flattop 44 spl would be dandy, and now you just have to decide barrel length!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck, Chris 

Mark

Welcome to the forum. Boy you are probably going to get a bunch of suggestions on what Ruger to buy.
I've been a Ruger fan for a LOT of years. With the newer six-guns Ruger is offering I'd pick a Blackhawk .44 Special with a 4-5/8" bbl.
 I'd look for a 50th year anniversary model. If you are flush, I'd have it stocked with Ivory. If Ivory is too expensive I'd look at the American Holly wood for a set of stocks. 

The .44 Special can handle about 90% of  the situations a handgun should be used for including hunting almost any game here in America.

Hope we don't confuse you too much. 
Frank

I don' t think Ruger is offerint the flat top .44 special in an Anniversary model and the .44 mag Anniversary models are 6 1/2" . The real decision maker here is how serious you are about reloading for it?  I load the flat top special up and the flat top magnum (and my smiths) down.  If you don't want to develop your own loads I will be a radical and say keep an eye out for a .45Colt and get hunting ammo from Buffalo Bore.  I personally don't go for the SBH because I like 'em light and handy. If you reload for them all of the Blackhawks in .4+ will do the job

When I went to the gun shop I was lookin for the .44 special flattop which they didn't have.  The had regular Blackhawks in .45 as well as Vaqueros.   They even had a convertible Vaquero.  I think I'll keep watching online hoping that the Lipsey's .45 flattops are around when I have my funds together.  I really expect to end up with a flattop .44 special since it's a regular catalog item.  It's too bad I can't put the SBH hammer on a flattop.  I love that hammer.  It's just perfect for me.

What I'm really wondering is how strong the smaller-framed flattop is, i.e., will I have to keep pressures within normal SAAMI levels?  That dosn't bother me at all, but I would prefer not to blow anything up.

BTW, I'm totally open to tons of suggestions.  I expect it, especially here.

I wish someone would reprint Brian Pearce' load data for the .44 special flat top. I can't find my copy any where. If you can locate it you will probably have your answers

Mark, if you need advice on the 44 flattop you should check out the Ruger forum under the revolver section. This link I provided is some loads for a flattop. As always be careful if you use other peoples load data, start with data from a good manual but use other peoples data as a reference or guide to develop your loads. Those Ruger guys have lots of info! Chris
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=128995

How many times can you reasonably expect to reload the same case, assuming you aren't exceeding standard pressure?  I'm thinking about the 44 Spl or 45 Colt.

Without exceeding SAAMI specs? well I'm over ten reloads on some cases then.  I have enough cases for my "hotter loads" that none of them are over six cycles, but I don't know where the "retirement point" is.

Since neither the 44 Special nor the 45 Colt are exactly plentiful in stores here, I started checking what it would cost to buy components to reload the two.  The brass is a tad expensive so I thought I might be able to load 1000+ rounds with 200 cases.  I figure that what I want out of the cartridges won't stress the brass too awful much.
Is Starline brass any good?  It seems to be the best buy I can find.

Starline and I get along very well. Probably 50% or more of my .41, .44, .45 brass is Starline. The majority of the rest is Remington

 
edit to add: Wait 'till you get into casting your own bullets. the savings really start to add up, plus you can get better bullets and things not factory offerings,

Depending on the brass and the chambers of course, it will depend also on how you reload. I have some 45 Colt cases (mixed brands) I have reloaded at least ten times but I don't resize my cases since I shoot them in the same gun over and over. I deprime with a deprime only die (no sizing), flare the mouth a tad with the Lee case flaring die, prime with an RCBS hand priming tool, dump in the right amount of powder, seat and crimp the bullet and go shooting. I do check if a case seems sticky but I have only had to toss out one or two cases out of the three to four hundred or so I have been using since the 80's. I did recently come into some Starline but haven't used those yet. I don't shoot hot loads and I am careful about case inspection prior to reloading. I clean my cases in a liquid lemon solution when they get too crusty. I pretty much do the same in the 44 magnum SBH except I don't shoot it as much as the Colt because I like the Colt better! Personal choice since there is nothing wrong with the SBH other than it's a bit heavy for this old dude to hang on to for a long shooting day. Besides, I love the 45 and the Colt New Frontier. So, there is no reason you shouldn't get good case life with either the 44 special or the 45 Colt. Chris

I'm reluctant to cast my own bullets.  I don't have a good enough place.  The barn is the best I have, but it's so dusty (the Arizona high desert where I live has ultra-fine dust always in the air) that I worry about contamination of the lead.   
I intended to do cast for my .357 and even got a nice lead furnace.  Can't remember the brand, maybe RCBS...it's green.  It's the kind that pours from the bottom.  I intended to put it with some other stuff to sell so I could come up with the difference between what I can get for my GP and what I'll have to pay for a new single action.
Anyway, back on point.  I reckon I can get good quality cast bullets for 12 to 15 cents apiece.  I've been checking online stores where I can get everything in one place to reload the caliber I choose with the goal of saving a little money on shipping.  I am having to research different brands of cast bullets, because not everyone carries the same brands and cost varies widely.

Azmarkmark;
I am using 45 Colt and 44 Special brass that I have been shooting since the 70's. As Chris said, it depends on how you load. You will soon tire of paying for cast bullets. Make some friends in the tire business and you can pay 0.00 per bullet. You will need to keep your furnace and get yourself two other things: a mold, and some Xlox liquid Alox that you can get on Ebay very inexpensively. For a mold, I recommend Lyman 429421 for 44 Special or 454424 for 45 Colt from Lyman. You can usually get a 4-banger version of either from Ebay if you have patience. If you like to shoot, reloading is the only way. I guess you will also need a press and a set of dies. Both can be had from Ebay really cheap. If the expense of a press is a killer, I have an old Lyman you can have just for shipping. Sorry I don't have any extra dies, but I could also supply some liquid Alox. I hate to see a guy hung up just for a few bucks. I've been there, but it's a memory now.
 
 
Mike

lead isn't the huge contamination issue folks seem to think. wash your hands and clothings and remember that lead is heavy, it likes to stay put. It doesn't spread easily.
 
I use the 429421 mold and the RCBS 250 K for the .44s. Very simple and despite the fact that some get all "mystic" about it (that is mostly self-gratification IMO) bullet casting is not a black art. Get a good set of calipers and slug the bore and the cylinder throats when you get a big bore so you can match up with the right diameter bullet. That is at least as important as the bullet alloy mix to the 4th decimal place or the Brinell hardness to the second place.

I was looking at the Ruger site when my wife came back from town.  I showed her what I was looking at, and she put in a vote if or the stainless Super Blackhawk :-) .  She said it's a good looking gun and "the name sounds cool".
She has a point....(he said with a grin).

On the subject of casting, what are the schools of thought on aluminum versus steel for the moulds?   Lee's are much cheaper.

Sounds like a good choice. I would suggest before any final decisions it would be helpful to get to a gun shop where you could handle various models and calibers and barrel lengths to get a feel for them. It always helps to have a gun to hold and handle a bit before buying. Chris

Hey, Chris, I actually went and handled a BH, Vaq, and a SBH.  The Vaqero had the most natural feeling grip for me but the SBH had a hammer that felt like it was designed just for my hand. 

You need to realize the "new" Vaquero is a smaller frame revolver like the old Colt SAA and if you plan to use for hunting they are not recommended for "Ruger Only" loads. The Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk are both larger frame and can handle the stouter hunting loads. As to casting I buy my cast bullets on line and your pricing of 10 cents a round is pretty close depending on caliber.

I'd say you just need to make the leap and get that gun in your hands so you can start doing some shooting and lining up a hog to hunt. As I have said before, "Nothing wrong with an SBH". I have bought cast bullets in the past and while they are more expensive than casting your own, if that's what gets you started shooting and hunting by all means do it. Good luck and be safe. Chris

Right again, Chris. Get the gun, then worry about the rest. The whole idea is to shoot. While the SBH is a bit muzzle heavy for me, I have one and like it enough that I had custom grips put on it. And, you sure can't wear it out.
 
Mike

Any mold recommendations for all around use?

Azmarkmark;
The only bullets I use in the 44 Spl and 44 Mag are from my 4-banger Lyman 429421. I haven't used the RCBS 250K, but it looks good. I use the 4-banger because it keeps casting time down, and I get great consistency from it.
As for the 45 Colt, I recommend the Lyman 454424. It's not being currently made, but it is regularly available at Ebay. In fact, there is a double cavity there right now with a current bid of $11. I have the 4-banger there, too because I can get 200 good bullets in about an hour and a half. I use the 454424 instead ogf the current production 452424 because all my 45 Colts, even from S&W, have cylinder throats that need that. If you are going to get a 45, measure the cylinder throat of your actual revolver before you get a mold. The only problem with RCBS is that I don't think they make 4-bangers.
The best, in my book are the Hensley and Gibbs, but they are few and far between.
 
Mike

I'm starting to get fired up.  I didn't realize that my furnace was top of the line; at least I think it is.  Midway sells it new for $379 so I'm thinking I should sell it to help finance the difference between what I can get for the GP and what the BH will cost.  I've done more research into casting and it won't cost all that much to put together basic melting equipment.

Dude;
Keep the furnace. It's what is known as a sunk cost. It's a great furnace, but you will never get what it's worth. You have most of the cost of casting already out of the way.
 
Mike

I agree. a used furnace isn't going to bring much no matter what it is. Kinda like a used hammer.

I didn't think about checking the grip fit on the guns I looked at with a one-hand grip in mind.  I read an article by Skeeter Skelton where he described a shooting position I've seen in magazines but have never tried.  It's the one where you lie down on your non-shooting side and rest your shooting hand on your shooting side leg.
Do you want to be able to shoot one-handed comfortably with a gun you intend to hunt with?  This question never occurred to me.

Mark, probably the best way to answer this is that in order to hunt and shoot an animal in an effective way so as to not waste meat or subject yourself to a lost animal from a poor shot is to be able to shoot accurately, no exceptions. If you practice different ways, one handed vs two handed etc., that is always a good thing since hunting is kind of unpredictable, but the most important thing is to hit where you are aiming. Skeeter did a lot of shooting, all different ways and he was a great shot, so every hunter may not be as capable as someone like that but the point is to practice until you are capable enough to administer a killing shot at a reasonable range. If you aren't capable of that then more practice is in order before hunting. As Dirty Harry said, "A man has to know his limitations!" Hope this helps. Chris

Practice...definitely.  It's a chore, but someone has to do it.

I need to handle the candidate guns some more.  Bummer.

I think the barrel length will be important, you want something long enough to be accurate but short enough to be manageable and easy to carry. As I said before, a 7 1/2 inch barrel is great for hunting but if you are carrying it around all day with only one or two shots being made then a shorter barrel will be a plus. Short barrels can be just as accurate as a long barrel too. It's what feels best to you. Chris

I generally wear a 4" N" frame or a 4  5/8" bh but my area is kind of brushy and "hilly" and 125 yds would generally be a LONG shot for a rifle. That and the fact that I buy most of my guns used and I take what I can get. Althought I have a couple of 6" "N" frames and my FTBH "Anniversary" is of course the 6 1/2" Any longer than that, and with my height and stature people are apt to say "Look at that gun with the guy hung on it".  It is just complete luck that I don't have a Ruger in 5 1/2 but they don't turn up around here often, I guess all the rain and the need to keep it under a coat may have something to do with it. In a single action they start to feel too muzzle heavy for my taste past 5 1/2" but other folks like 'em.
The three keys to successful handgun hunting are, practice, practice, practice And make sure you leave some time for a little extra practice when you can. I am a big fan of the old 8 or 9 inch paper plate target. practice until you know, that from a field position, or an improvised position, you can keep all your shots on that plate. The farthest distance you can do that is your effective limit.
 
Good luck, it's a great challenge and a greater thrill.

Hold it sideways while leaping through the air. It seems to work well for Mel Gibson in the movies. I think all these queer positions are the product of writers' imaginations.
But seriously, Askins and Keith both recommended dry firing - a lot - for practice with your grip. Besides it's something you can do in the house. Doorknobs make great targets. Or the cat, if he's just thrown up a hairball. Don't worry, you can't hurt a centerfire revilver by dry firing.
 
Mike

I dry fire at bad guys on the idiot box. I live in the country and make sure the worst case scenario is...that I shoot the idiot box.

If I was to look to purchase a new hunting single action, I would take a very long look at these numbers...
1) Freedom Arms model 83, available in everything from the 44 mag. to cartridges to make your elbows and wrists scream.
2) Ruger Blackhawk/Bisley Hunter, 44 mag.
Now, not poo-poohing anything anyone has written above, but if I wanted a gun to hunt with-and I had the coin, I would get one of the above. Yes, it is dreamland to even imagine such, but there it is. Any of the above will deliver the goods. The FA and the Rugers are scope compatible, if you are into optics-and I dare say, as you age, unless you one of the very few, you will need to be to consistently deliver humane shots at long range from a handgun.  Barrels must be long, to squeeze out maximum ballistics, and weight is as heavy as possible, to offer a steady hand and reduce recoil.

Keep in mind that the above FA's and Rugers are specialized tools. They are not self-defense weapons. They are not perfect packin pistols. They meet the needs of handgun hunters when correctly appointed, and precious little else.

Now, it is true that many crossover guns exist that can be used, but none will provide the level of hunting performance in single action hunting handguns as those listed above.