Ask Elmer about anything

Elmer, While driving YOUR BRONCO to the range last week, I was wondering how would you load a 263 grain Keith bullet? RCBS mould, 2400, mag primers. I started with 17 gr. went up 1 gr.till I got to 20grn. 17grn was ok. 18 grn keyholed all perfectly 45 degrees to the left all identical 19grn was a joke 20grn strung em horizontal but tight. So how hot can I go with a fairly new Super Redhawk? Oh,I also changed the oil again and shes runnin good ready for the trip to Salmon in Oct for deer and elk. Thanks.

Sound like a problem with either: The lead does not have enough tin in it,for hardness. If so, try dropping the cast bullet into a bucket of water out of the mould. This will harden it up.
RCBS screwed up my mould, by making it cast bullets of too much weight. They advertize it as a 250 K bullet. It is a tad longer than the original 429 421 that Lyman made.
Also try putting graphite in the lube. I beleive you will find that the problems disappear, and the 20 grain charge of 2400, with a Remington standard primer.will do fine. Even though the Redhawk is a strong gun,nothing is gained by a few feet per second velocity after you reach a point that the bullet will more than do its job.
Horizontal stringing may mean the rear sight is slightly loose. Rugers have had a problem with that. Remember a small movement in the rear sight can mean a large difference on target. That is one of the reasons I like the Smith and Wesson rear sight so much. Far better quality, and no movement side to side.
I hope this helps.

I am glad you are taking care of the Bronco. I wish I was there. Take enough gun for Elk. 338 is minimum. 250 grain Hornady will get the job done, and keep you from a long tracking job.

Thank you for the reply. My first go round with the Lyman moulds gave me a bullet diameter of .426 the second was much better at .427, sent em back and went with RCBS. I've read so many different articles that state to only use a mag primer and then others that tell you not to. And yes I think its time to change sights, always had great eye sight but lately? And my Elk rifle is a .375H&H Ruger no.1 300grn Barnes. Love the gun. Wanted to get the 460G&A done for this year we'll see.The man that built the gun, Otto Garst passed away 3weeks ago. Really wanted to get it done in his memory but I'm running out of time. Thanks again, Don

The mould should be 431-432 dia. 427 is fine for the 44/40 as Colt made it, but unacceptable for the 44 Special, or Magnum. The bullet should be 1 thou. over cylinder dia. and 2 thou. over groove dia. This allows the bullet to align itself to the bore, and be balanced in the rifling. It should be a press fit into the cylinder with your thumb the last 1/8 inch or so.
I have used the Merit sight for eyeglasses. Works wonderfully for old eyes.
(note from Gunsmith. I got glasses that fit my close in bifocal presciption. The sights are sharp, and the target is blurred. Like it is supposed to be.)
The 375 is one of the most versitile cartridges ever made. Thumping power with 30-06 trajectory.
Hope you get a good Elk. And deer. I wish I could be out there in the field again. Being dead is highly overrated in some respects.

Does anyone else want to ask me questions? Or did everyone memorize my books, and know as much as I did? I see my books are selling for more money than I made in the 20's. Wish I could write some more, I would have it made.
500 dollars for Big Game. Wow.
I sold it for 5.50 at the time it was written. What a mark-up. Little and Brown must be really in the money. I hope they are still publishing it. Probably not. They don't know a good book when it sits on there desk.

Hey, I have a question, What was this rifle?
(I know, I think we discussed before, but I can't find the thread.)

Book drawing for this month ends today.

Al: Is that his Iver Hendrickson 338-378 Farqueson (spelling?)? It looks like the one he describes in one of his letters or articles back in the 60's. Just guessing. CHRIS

It kinda looks like his No#1H Tropical with the bear engraving on it. If so its a 375 H&H My screen is going and its a bit unclear. Nothing worse than calling it way wrong but it looks like it to me.

In response to the comment of todays book values of Elmers. I asked Ted that very question,"what would your dad had thought if you had told him his books would one day be untouchable" His response was something to the effect of"he'd probably never beleive another word from you" I just got a copy of "Keith" that was given to me. Problem is it went through another friend on its way to me. We all know how this may go, just thankfull my friend is honest and has to give it to me before we go hunting in Idaho this fall.

It is the Ruger. Can't you tell by the scope mount?.
Elmer made the books to be read, not collected. What a shame they are becoming Safe Queens. Someone needs to begin publishing them again.
I will contact the NRA and see if I can get them to publish Elmer's books. Peterson has no interest, or nor does InterMedia. Maybe my publisher, Safari Press will do it.

My copy of Gun notes 1 was published by Safari Press. I can't understand why Cabelas hasn't tried something. I think its ashame they don't have a huge display of books for sale at the museum, isn't that called revenue? Maybe Cabelas isn't in the business for profit? Then again maybe I should just shut up and get back to work.

How is Ted doing? I see his son Gregor is in Nevada. Do Ted, or his son,hunt anymore?

OK, It does look like a Number One Ruger. I think if we knew when the pic was taken we could pin it down definitivly. I bow to your excellent eyesight. CHRIS

Yes his had the Alex Henry forend. The serial number is 15 by the way. in 375 H&H. I do not know if he ever took it elk hunting. Maybe Ted can clairify this question. I know it was on display at the Ruger Collectors Ass. under Guns of the Gunwriters.

That gun is at Cabelas, I tried talking Ted into trading it with me.I have a No1 in .375H&H. He looked at me and for a second I think he questioned why I was there with him.Anyway, as for Ted he is doing well. I hunted with him last year and we are planning this year as well.He and his wife are some of the busiest people I know.I have the utmost respect for the two of them. Most people I know slow down after retirement I think they picked up speed. As for the serial no.s as Bill Ruger would come out with a new model he would send one to Elmer with the serial no#0015.

My eye sight is very poor. I used control ++ to enlarge the picture. Nothing fancy.
When you go hunting with Ted, what gun and caliber does he use. I bet it is not a 270.

sorry I double clicked

I'm happy to keep things cleaned up around here. Just about got all the names in the hat...

Gunsmith I sent you a pm

Gunsmith,I mean Elmer, Do you have much experience with Enfield actions? I need advice on a few things.I have an Enfield that has been converted to a 460 G&A. Gorgeous gun, was 90% completed when I got it. Need advice on followers and feeding. What to look for etc...The Builder I got it from was a great builder but had some health issues and moved,we stayed in contact and he recently passed away. The .460 was a .404 Jefferey necked up to .458 I'd like to finish it myself if possible.I have some dummy rounds that feed well, then they won't HELP. Thankyou, Don

That cartridge/gun combination is sensitive to bothe overall length, and extractor set up. Make the cartridge/bullet combination as long as possible,to feed correctly. You may need to throat the barrel if the bullet is jamming into the rifling when loaded long.
Use the neck tension to hold the bullet into position. Size the expander ball to 3 to 4 thou under loaded specs. this will give you good neck tension for a dangerous game cartridge.
I would use a 500 grain Hornady solid, or soft point in it. The Woodleighs have a problem with the bullet being different sizes on the front bearing surface and the rear. Speer makes a good bullet, but I do not know if they still make a Solid. They used to make one with a Tungsten core. It was GREAT.
The extractor needs to be fitted properly, with a bevel on the inside of the hook, to gradually take control of the cartridge as it feeds up from the magazine. It needs to be rounded also on the bottom of the hook. Hard to describe. Look at a Mauser that came from Obendorf. That will tell you what I am talking about.
I would like to get a picture of the gun, as Enfields were some of my favorites.
My 334 OKH was built on one.

Thankyou for the help,this is my first attempt at something like this.I have done lots of other things but nothing this exacting.I would e-mail a pic if I knew how.Might try to get my daughter to try. The stock is gorgeous and the combo weighs about eleven pounds.If I can't send by computer pm your address to me I'll send some cool pics of guns and places you'd be interested in.Thanks Don

Elmer, I just had 380pounds of wheel weights given to me.Boy is the wife happy, this way I'll be out of the house for a while.Is this too soft without adding tin? The lead is for .44 mag loads. Thanks

I'm trying to find the last name of Elmer's friend "Sam" he was the barber who helped Elmer with the quickdraw lessons. Elmer makes comments as to him being a gunfighter from the southwest.I thought while I was reading the Encyclopedia of western gunfighters he might be in there.However in the 1800's everyother gunfighter was named Sam. Can anyone help? Thanks Don

No idea who that would be. Go to Helena, and look up the old tax records for 1915 to 1920. They may have him listed under barber. It would be great to see the floor with all the bullets in it. Kind of a non slip finish, one hole at a time.
Elmer really put what he taught to good use.

EMK1161. I have used wheel weights for years. No need to add tim, or antimony(that just makes them shiny anyway) Dump them right from the mold into a bucket of cold water,with a folded towel on the bottom,to cushion the landing, and not deforme the bullet.
Keep the water well away from the lead pot. Water and hot lead do not mix. These bullets will be almost as hard as a jacketed bullet. Use a good bullet lube, with enough graphite in it to make it black. Size the bullets 431,432 diameter. Use Elmers mold 429421. Not a hyped up gas check number. Use 2400 powder, with a regular Rem Primer. Use between 19 and 21 grains of it and have lots of fun.

Elmer, What do you think of v-notch sights for the Redhawk? I'm refering to Hamilton Bowens Rough country v-notch. Went shooting last night and hate to admit it but,the eyes are going.I've always liked the express type sight anyway,what do you think. Again Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" .44 mag ofcourse. Thanks Don P.S. Take your time responding hunting season about here and hunting a couple non res states.I'M BROKE!

Don't mean to step on Elmers toes but just wanted to say, On my SBH 7 1/2 inch I tried a shallow vee (Express sight type) with a red fiber optic front and it was ok out to about 50 yds or so. A vee may work with a square blade but I think a bead type, whether Gold, or white or fiber optic works better with a vee rear. For target shooting I tried a bead front with U-notch and that's pretty good for paper but not for hunting. Just for kicks I also tried a rear peep on the Ruger with the fiber optic front bead and it actually wasn't too bad but I don't know what it would be for hunting. Chris

Thats what I was thinking. Would like to try a v sight, bead front. After you look at all the options out there it gets confusing.That and the fact that many writers don't really tell how they may really feel about a sight or gun combo.Rather ask around to get an honest opinion.(not saying they are all that way) Don

You never know till you try it, I would try it and maybe several front options to see what works for you best. Maybe try a shallow vee or maybe even a less shallow vee too if you have the time to experiment. That's basically what I did on the SBH, just kept switching till I found a good fit for me. My problem is sight height, can't seem to get the right combo that allows a good range of adjustment. I am even considering a new rear assembly from someone like Bowen who makes a nice but expensive rear upgrade. Chris

Ed Mc Givern liked the express type rear sight, with the gold bead front sight, that was named after him. Elmer found that this was the fastest and most accurate setup for game and trick shooting. He liked a shallow V, with the McGivern front sight, in gold. For target shooting he liked the patridge front sight, 1/10 to 1/8 wide with a rear sight that gave ample light on either side of the notch. Generally speaking, the front sight should fill 1/2 of the rear sight opening. Then when centered, 1/4 of the distance will be light on either side of the rear sight.
Hamilton Bowen is a wonderful person, I have met him personally at the American Pistolsmiths Guild Meeting in Pittsburgh Pa. He will never lead you wrong. Just tell him what you need, and that you want your gun set up like Elmers. He will take it from there. Tell him the Pistolsmith from Pittsburgh sent you.

The fiber optic sights are a gimmick. They fuzz up the sight image, and are too delicate to ever be on a Sixgun, or any other firearm made. I installed many, and had nothing but problems from my customers with them. They are fine for the tyro, that thinks he can make up for practice with gimmicks. Trust me, there is no fast way to get good with a sixgun, or any other gun, other than a lot of practice. That and reading Sixguns, Fast and Fancy by McGivern, and then practicing some more. In about 10,000 rounds, you will notice a definite improvement. Until then, you are still a beginner. get the right equipment, and then use it.

Thats the advice I'm looking for.Lately I have noticed my eyes ain't what they used to be.I'm the only one in the family that didn't need glasses...till now I guess.I have lately found the ruger sights a little difficult to center, not enough contrasting color for me. Then I saw an article that Taffin wrote, I think it was about two of Reeders guns. Mastadon I think one was. Damn sexy gun.After seeing that I thought Id try a v rear bead front. And too,I never did like fiber optic sights.

Glad Elmers Writing could help. He covered this same topic many years ago. Glad to see that people are still experimenting, and are willing to learn about sixguns, and firearms in general.
On a side note. Elmer would have considered the 500 Smith a stunt gun, not practical for everday carry. Weighs too much, poorly balanced, and not practical for holster use. What good is it then, if a good rifle, of the same weight, can be made, and do more things,far more accuratly. The 44 Mag is still the "most powerful,Practical,handgun in the world.
Yes the 454 is a good round, but the gun is much larger than the Smith also. The ammo has been downloaded by the factories to 44 mag preformance also, so just get a 44, and get the job done right.

Although I agree the .500 is a sandbager, My FA 454 is similar in size/ weight to a Ruger Super Blackhawk, and my "Light Load" pushes a 265 gr bullet at 1300+ fps. Full blow is close to 2000 fps with the FAFP 260 bullet. (book says 2100, but haven't seen that over the chrony) Mite bit more then a .44 Mag, and still quite packable.

The 454 Casull is a fine gun. I fired one,Dick Casulls personal one, at a demonstation shoot in Pittsburgh, around 1982. Shot well. The 300 grainers were pretty strong. I fired them 1 handed. Dick Casull was ready to catch it when I dropped it. Just left it roll in my hand. Fired 3 300 grainers, and hit what I aimed at, with all 3.
The Casull needs its own holster, as it is too large for a regular SAA holster. And it only has 5 shots. Elmer fired it, Knew Dick Casull, and thought it was a solution to a problem that did not exist. Dick Casull had Elmer do a lot of input into the gun, but being a 5 shot, Elmer was not that excited. Not enough to leave the 44 mag and go with it.
The Taurus and Ruger guns are abortions in my opinion, in 454. Shoot for crap, Kick like a mule,because of the grip design. Shoots like a shotgun because of poor timing, and cost cutting methods(IE the front of the cylinder not being locked up solid, and the headspacing being too large.
The Freedom Arms guns are the way to go in this cartridge. Anything else is compairing gold to Brass plating. Both may look the same to the uneducated, but given time and use, the difference will be very evident.

...rig fits them both like a glove, although the Super Blackhawk is on the large end of the SA range, not really a SAA. I'll dig them out of the safe this weekend and measure them. And yes, I agree, ruger and tarus .454's are not on par with the FA.

In post #24 I asked about Elmer's friend Sam's last name. And since I'm sure you all have lost sleep over this,I found it.I'm the Hardy boy that packed heat,the one they never showed,the really cute one. His last name was Russell,and dammit can't find a thing on him anywhere.Kinda hoped he was a bad dude that moved to Mt.to lay low.Maybe he did? Sorry guys, this is the kinda stuff I think of. Don

...stepping in on Elmer's party. Don, don't feel bad, I think we all love the history of the west and especially when it comes to people like Sam Russell who was a friend of Elmer's. I usually read anything at all pertaining to the old west and the people who tamed it one way or another. Chris

Yup, thats me a little obsessed.But admitting it is the first step!Gonna be gone for a couple days, check in with you around Wed. Don

Have fun, take care. Chris

That is correct Sam Russell. I wonder if he was related to Charlie Russell. Elmer was a personal friend of Charlie's, and had several original drawings made by him. One in particular, Waiting on a Chinook. The picture of the starving cow. Elmer said that it was on many calendars.
I am going to check the Charles Russell wiki and see what comes up.

I wonder if anyone in Montana can help with this one. A Sam Russell was an owner of a drug store in the 1800s. Here is a picture, and story. Knowing Elmer's history with the Masons, this may tie in with the Sam Russell we have been looking for. Ranks Drug store is next door, with as they say, few improvements over the years. The Masonic hall would look exactly like it did when Elmer was there(as I am sure he was.) http://www.bessel.org/vacitylg.htm

Very interesting, I hope someone can answer, I would love to hear his lifestory. Thanks Gunsmith. Chris

I cam up with this biography. Interesting in it own right. If someone has the time to read it, it may give us some light on the matter. I don't have time. http://www.archive.org/stream/cmrcharlesmrusse010044mbp/cmrcharlesmrusse...

Thanks Gunsmith, I was especially interested in the descriptions of his early life in Montana, it was really something back then. I didn't see any reference to Sam though, too bad. Chris

How did you find this? Pretty good stuff to read.Not sure if the dates would work for this to be the right Sam? I saw the print(copy of it)of Russells" waiting for a chinook" Shoulda bought it, it was a little shabby but woulda looked good in the reloading room.

Yes the years match when Elmer was around. From 1901 to 1925 Charlie lived in Montana. I don't think Sam was a direct relative of Charlie's, but he had some that fought in the Indian Wars. Sam Russell, according to Elmer, I believe was in one of the great campaigns. I will get my copy of Hell I was there, and let you know.

Was just reading Triggernometry, and a name came up, familiar to any Elmer fan. Pink Simms. It seems that he was friends with Ed McGivern, in Lewistown, Montana. A genuine fast draw with the sixgun. Does anyone know anything else about him? Elmer thought highly of him. He got lessons from Pink Simms when he got burned. Apparently Ed McGivern thought highly of him also. He is said to have been able to fire 3 shots with a single action revolver in the time it took for a poker chip to fall from an outstretched hand to the ground. That is 3 tenths of a second. Fast in anyones book.

Pink Simms was a real character in the Old West, from a short search. He had opinions on everything. Here is a short info on him.
#

Pink Simms - A cowboy and lawman, he pursued the Wild Bunch with Charles Siringo.

He also had no liking for Wyatt Earp. A lot of info is coming out about Wyatt. Not all good. Seems he was some what of a Pimp.Not that the Cowboys were angels. They deserved what they got, in spades. But History favors the winners.