Letters From Elmer Keith

I really liked it eventhough he got going pretty quick on the keys, some of it I had to think about what he meant. I'm talking of the spelling. I really liked the letters to and from O'l 270 (Jack) Good stuff. You could tell how he was feeling when he wrote to someone he knew. For the loyal fans that don't have it GET IT!

EMK1161:
Yes, I got his drift after reading a few of his answers. Once you saw how his typing was missing keys you could read his answers pretty good. But aside from the errors, I really understood his need to answer a question honestly and with his experience to make it plausible. He wasn't trying to mislead anyone, just make his point clear. He definitely had no qualms about calling out someone who had slighted or defamed him. His dislike for Ackley stemmed from their relationship back in the arsenal during the postwar years or there abouts. I think Elmer was actually a very honest person who had views on stuff that was pertient to the times and we cannot judge him now because our views are distorted by time. He was truely a man who lived his life on his terms and no one else's. I admire that. Not many people can claim to be original in this day and age and that makes him all the more relevant today. We could use him today! Chris

I only hope that people can think of me when I pass on, the way people think of Elmer.
His wisdom is timeless. We are the ones that have fallen off the path of truth, and experience. It is up to us to get back on, and live the life of an American. Not what some numb skull on the TV says an American is, but what we know, were raised to believe in, what we know is right and wrong. This is what Elmer was talking about, and what we should emulate in our lives as well.
Just my 2 cents worth. Blowing off some steam.
God is it nice, living in a country that you can sleep beside a 44 mag, have a passel of rifles in your home, and wild game in the freezer. Going to get some more squirrels next week. Then Turkey, and Deer. Life is good.

This is one book that is on my reading list, still working on the one by Gene Brown.

Hi David. It's a good book and gives some insight into Elmer's views on a lot of stuff. By the way, welcome to the forum. Chris

Was at the Pennsylvania Gun Collectors Show last weekend, and was talking to a gentleman about Elmer. His main comment was about his alcoholism. I guess Elmer in his last years hit the scotch a little too hard. He said that Elmer was propped in a corner, sitting in a chair, gone to the world. What a shame that he left himself go like that.
The man is exreamly reliable, so I do not doubt his word. What we have to remember is what Elmer said and did, not what his final outcome was.

I am reading Big Game for the empteenth time. Pick up something new every time. Made me decide to build a "retro gun" Mounted a Weaver j 2.5 scope on a converted M88. Mannlicher Stock. 18 inch barrel. What a nice peice of equipment. Light, fast and hard hitting with Elmers 8 mm load. 170 grain bullet at 2500 FPS is no slouch in anyones book. Light on the recoil also. When I finish it, I will post pictures. It is like a gun Elmer would have had made in the 1920s.
By the way Ruger is making the Blackhawk, in 44 SPECIAL. A nice light hard hitting sixgun. And they are offering it in the BISLEY format. Just like old No 5. We are living in the best days, just no jobs to pay for things.

Gunsmith, Please forgive me should I come off a bit abrasive. After the life we think Elmer had(not living it ourselves)I don't think it is apropriate to post the alleged drinking of Elmer.Imagine if you will all the injuries he wrote about not to mention the stuff he didn't tell us or anyone for that matter that caused him pain. We could talk of losing babies and then a teenage daughter to add now some emotional stress to his life. Everyone has their own way to deal with this type of thing. I have learned alot on this site and had a great amount of fun as well.Lets not turn this into the Gun version of the national enquirer.This is only my humble opinion. Thankyou

I prefer to follow the old adage,"Walk a mile in my shoes....." before I subscribe to criticism of anyone. As far as I know, Elmer Keith was a pretty straight shooter who contributed quite a bit to the shooting community. I prefer to think of all those accomplishments and contributions when I think of him, he's the reason I got interested in handguns and big bore rifles and that's good enough for me. Chris

Well I see that I was able to get a reply quickly this time. I figured a fire might smoke you people out of the woodwork.
That is exactly what I told the person. Elmer had a life that we in the 21st century can only imagine. He WAS THERE during the time of the old west. He did it, and did it all well.
There is NO ONE that respects, and admires Elmer more than I. I wish that I could have met him, more than anyone other than Jesus. He and I would have had a lot of conversation.
I informed the person about our Forum, and invited him to participate. Maybe he can become educated.

I wish someone would ask some questions about guns, life, or the fairer half, so I can see what Elmer had to say about itand relay the answer to you all. . That is what this was for, answering questions. That is why it is called, Ask Elmer about anything.

Perhaps you can ask better questions in the future gunny! I, too, like questions or comments on guns and loads etc, let's forget personal posers unless they actually re-enforce the guns and ammo stuff. Chris

Wonderful . Has anyone noticed the lack of proper ammo for the 32-20. The factory stuff is JUNK. Only worth the brass in my Smith,and my sons Colt Police Pos. Bullets mike out at .310. Needs a 314 to fill the throat of the cylinder. There are no Jacketed bullets in 314, only 312. And they shoot LOUSY. Anyone have similar experiance? I know Elmer liked the 32-20, and I would like to do some real work with one.

An Elmer Keith quiz online. I scored 8 out of 8 first time out. http://quiz.thefullwiki.org/Elmer_Keith

With the .32-20, I have never had any issues with the Remington 100 grain lead with my Smith M & P. It seemed to be quite accurate and even my best handloads only shade it a bit on the best days. I prefer to handload my .32-20's because of the availability of the factory stuff. Between the cast bullets and the Hornady XTP's I pretty much have it covered.

You must have a very tight barrel, and cylinder in your M&P. Mine is a .314. The best I can get at 25 yards is a 6 inch group with factory 100 grainers. Just found a box of Winchester 32-20s. The jacketed ones. I think they are the hot loads for rifle only. Does anyone know of a Smith or a Colt Police Positive that blew up with them? I would like to try them for accuracy. The box is to torn up for a collector.

I am pretty much a big bore handgun type,.44 mag and 45 Colt, although most of my plinking is with the little 22 Scout, but in light of the 32 H&R Mag and the 327 Mag what do you think of those and how do they compare to your 32-20? Just curious is all, not in the market for any of them as I have a nice 357 that does the light work. Chris

I think the 327 is a cartridge without a reason. Same with the 32 H&R magnum. Made for the same reasons that Fishing lures are made. To catch fishermen, not fish. The 32-20 does everything the other do, with less pressure.

I have seen a Colt Army Special that was shot loose, I heard with too hot of loads but not sure if they were the loads you have. If you were interested, I would be interested in the box, even tore up I still like to look at them. I agree with you on the .327. What I have been hearing alot of guys doing is buying any box of .32 Smith & Wesson and .32 colt to fire in the .327 because they cannot find either .32 H & R or .327 on the shelves. Personally I think that the .327 is kind of an unecessary cartridge. Ken Waters back a while ago did a good article on the .32-20 revolver and he mentions alot about those High Velocity loads. I know he didn't recommend it. Not knowing how old your .32-20 is (the early revolvers didn't have heat treated cylinders). Mine is right at the time when Smith quit making them in the 1940's before WWII. Like I said, I would be interested in the box (you can keep the ammo if you wish). I just like looking at the old boxes.

Does anyone have any experience with the HK? I have one and then another became available from a friend. I like them and shoot one quite a bit. The problem is they stay real tight. What can be done to smooth them up a little? The majority of my experience is with revolvers and don't know where to start with an auto.

1. to shoot a Colt loose is almost impossible. Now to make a Colt loose is another thing. Many "gunsmiths" have taken good Colts and made them loose, by applying files, hammers and other things to them. The Colt is the only gun made that forces itself tighter into battery when fired. A Smith is trying to seperate when fired. Has to do with the cylinder lock up, and direction of rotation.
I have no idea when Smith began heat treating cylinders, but believe it was before 1910. That leaves a lot of good guns to use. Colt was probably before that.
My son has the box of 32-20s. I do not think he is interested in getting rid of it, as it was given to him by an old friend.
About the H,K. Why do you want to loosen it? here we all are trying to tighten our guns for accuracy, and someone wants to loosen one. Fire 20 boxes of ammo, 50 to a box in it. It should be very smooth after that, and you will probably hit what you aim at better also. I know my Smith and Wesson 629 liked that method of improvement, as well as my Colt All American.

Don: I think a drop of synthetic oil or ATF applied very carefully to the slide rails and perhaps back of the hammer so it can seep down to the innerds will smooth that thing right up. I guessed right off that you meant smooth when you said loose..... If I am not being too presumptuious. Chris

again, I used liberal amounts of wd 40 and it didn't help like I thought it would. But yes, I did mean smooth. Think I might just submerge the whole thing. Thanks again.

...you win, sometimes you get a mouth full of tail feathers. Hope you're winning Don. Your Old Pal Chris

sexier than the last pics of women Chris has put on there. Can I have one?.....and the gun that go's with it?

Al, do those have the homing device in the boooolits? Can they go around corners? They look awesome but are they? Don has a real quandry, he can tell the difference between a male and female fox but doesn't know the difference between a bullet and a woman???? Don? Don? Don?

Is it a different picture uploader?

i am reloading for a new vaquero in 45.This gun came out after Elmers times.Anybody have any good load suggestions using Elmers mould cast with wheel weight at 254 grs.I would prefer to load 2400 but worried about high pressures at 16 to 18 grains.Its a WTF commemorative and i would hate to spring the frame.I suspect that is stronger than a second gen Colt but quite a bit weaker than an original Vaquero frame.Any help is greatly appreciated.

How do you like the gun? I am thinking about getting one myself. The draw back I have with it is the lack of adjustable sights. How much can they handle? I would also like to be able to shoot a load thats not too hot but stout. Thanks

This is from Mr Taffin 9/30/2009 to another gentlman:
 I ASSUME WHAT YOU HAVE IS A "NEW VAQUERO" NOT A "new VAQUERO". THE FORMER IS COLT SAA SIZE
WHILE THE LATTER IS LARGER BUILT ON THE .44 MAGNUM FRAME. MYSELF I ONLY USE COLT-STYLE LOADS IN
THE NEW VAQUERO BUT A 255 AT 1,000 FPS IS NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION. TRY 10 GR. OF UNIQUE OR 20
GRAINS OF 4227. GOOD SHOOTIN' AND GOD BLESS, JOHN  
 
Use the guest book on Sixguns.com if you want to contact Mr Taffin directly.
Al

I got my copy yesterday of Letters from Elmer Keith and have read quite a bit. It's really interesting to get into Elmer's mind this way, especially about some different events, like the shooting death of Will Strong. This event obviously troubled Elmer for years after, especially the acts of the other people who were there. It is also obvious from the letters Elmer wrote, that he had a good repore with alot of his readers, something that I don't see with alot of writers now. I think maybe with the exception of John Taffin and Brian Pearce. But I don't see alot of the interaction between the readers and writers like there once was. I know when I write an article, and I get a question or a comment, I make it a point to answer them, in writing because they took the time to write to me, so the least I can do is answer that person, either pro or con. I haven't gotten alot of these, but a few, and I like to make sure that I answer their questions. To me if you are going to be a writer, especially about guns, then you should expect to get questions about them, and you should do your best to answer those questions.

I hope you don't think I'm too nosy but who do you write for or are you freelance? Just curious and if you have any place I could read some of your material. I am just an "old chair bound goat" who loves to read or talk about guns and shooting. Chris

I recently started writing for Guns.com, but I have had a few articles published in Fur-Fish-Game, Backwoodsman, and Adirondack Life Magazine. I also had an article in the 2011 Guns Annual. Most of what I write is about handguns, some hunting articles. I really haven't gotten into articles on shotguns (only one I think) and a few blackpowder pieces.

I will check and see if I can read some of them, thanks for responding. Chris

Probably not an interesting book to anyone not an Elmer Keith fan. If you have read most of his books, especially many times, there are a lot of insights into things Elmer never put into print ie the P.O. Ackley angle at Ogden. I always wondered who that was. Gene Brown called his book "The other Side of a Western Legend", and I thought he would show something unexpected about Elmer, but all the book does is confirm that he was the same in private as in public. I also would dearly loved to have met him, though I'm sure he had his thorny side too, as we all do. I am usually reading a Keith book, not a lot, but a few paragraphs before bed, with a little something to help me sleep. I like other authors of the same period also. There is something about those times I envy and don't think we will ever have again.

Wow. I surprised myself this morning with the Elmer Keith quiz. 8 out of 8. Guess I know a ittle more than I thought I did.

I have found a few nice old gun book s over the years, dating back to the 1930's or 40's. I used to have a stash of old Hunter-Trader-Trapper magazines from the late teens and early 20's as well. When my grandfather died, no one else wanted his hunting books so I got them all, which included a few back from the day I suppose. One was Calling All Varmints by Bert Popowski from the early 50's, another was Guns & Gunning written by Paul Curtis from 1936. A have a few articles from old Guns & Ammo magazine that were written by Elmer Keith, some from Skeeter Skelton, and I can say that I think their stuff then is better than anything now. I think that maybe except for Brian Pearce and John Taffin, there is not alot of writers who do the research work like Elmer or the others did. Elmer didn't experiment alot once he had the load he wanted. He knew what worked and used it. (His .44 Magnum load is a good example) Skeeter was the same with his .357 and .44 Special loads. I think that if alot of these magazines want to keep their readership up, because I have talked to alot of people in the last couple of years on this, they need to start getting a bit more down to earth. Stop with all the AR-15 and 1911 articles. Stop listing $1000 and up guns as affordable, and not every animal needs to be shot with the latest and most powerful round on the plantet. Alot of readers want to see more traditional articles, what they grew up with. It does not always need to be about polymer and high cap. That stuff is fine, but not everybody wants to read it every time. They want stories not just product reviews.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  I'm tired of compact guns,  plastic parts and ultra light weight doo-dads. One of the things I like to do besides give Chris a bad time is to find old reloading books and gunsmithing books. The stuff from Chris' childhood 1910 and on. The info in those books should be reprinted.  Anyway what you said is something I have been wanting to post but hadn't. And was it you that just got a Vaquero?

I may be older than dirt but I have at least retained some of the enormous amout of important stuff I've learned over the centuries, Don. That's why I tend to mentor you because I want younguns like you to grow old like me with lots of sixgun lore. I also like to collect old shooting stories and gunbooks so I can keep up with all the stuff I may have forgotten. Now what are you intending to do with that Vacquero? Chris

Thats what I meant, not old really,(?) but smart. I will admit it here for everyone to see. You are the one that has done a great amount of guiding for me lately. Thats because the one that guided me before, Bernie Madoff , hasn't been returning my calls. And you answer all my calls and until recently you havent charged either. In all honesty Chris, if I were as smart as you I'd be dangerous.

This from a guy who can't find the Upper Peninsula because he doesn't know East from West. LaLa Land is West, God's Country is the U.P. That is wisdom you can't get at Bernies bank..... Now when you're done poking fun at your elders you can tell us what you're going to do with that sixgun, new grips? engraving? new base pin? a tune-up for the innerds? new leather? you got to do something with it besides put it under your pillow in hopes the sixgun fairy will bring more..........and you has a long ways to go to catch me! Your Ole Pal Chris  

Yer a sixgun fairy? I don't know yet, I'd like to get the #5 pin for it. It's too small for us manly men out west to grab. Probably shoot it a bit before I decide what really needs to be done. I'll definately take it apart and smooth the innerds some and then shoot and see. The grips are a bit smaller than what I'm used to. Before long I'm sure it'll have fiber optics and Pachmayers or maybe a Tasco if I can save up enough. I'll end up making the holster . I'm hoping to shoot saturday after we see the taxman or maybe??? Nope didn't think it. And yes I'd love an engraved gun but will most likely wait for something else to do that to.

....with you, your grasp of the situation is not up to snuff. I'm am not the Sixgun Fairy! That was a make believe fantasy you had when you stored your new sixshooter under your pillow before you even shot it. But, enough of that stuff, we will have to figure out what to do with that new shooter to slick it up a bit. I suggest you give it to me and I'll do some test shooting and some tuning and stuff until it is a proper shootin iron fit for your use. Oh, send along a case of shells too, since I want to shoot exactly the shells you'll be using instead of mine, mine are just for my guns and wouldn't be any good in yours. So I'll take care of everything else and send it back in about a year or so, it takes quite a while to do the job right so don't be frettin if it isn't back for some time. I won't even charge you for this cause we're pals! Your Buddy Chris

What a deal, I called a company in PA this morn that charges a bunch for the same service. I sent it an hour ago from the post office, I thought you needed papers for that stuff guess not. I sent the gun, brass, bullets, primers and powder all in one package to save on the shipping. Also there is a small token of my appreciation in the form of 100 proof. I'll finish the letter in a minute theres a guy from the post office and another with a badge at the door.

I guess the money is on the way, again, I never learn......

They are heading your way. After many hours of very rude questioning I said you sent it to me and I refused the shipment, as you at times have sent me questionable and rather graphic things at times. I'm sure it wasn't the correct thing to do but it got em' off me. Good luck pal.

You are obviously not taking your meds again! You need to get back to a more stable state. Your Ole Pal, Chris

I sometimes forget to take them. I also forget to duck sometimes when my wife slaps me. They took my bullets away again....they do that alot. I'll call you when I get out.

Did they put you back in that place that's screened in that requires a key to get out? I will try to send a gift card so you maybe can shop at the hospital gift shop, I don't think they sell bullets though. Your Ole Pal, Chris

Hey Chris, This place is the best yet! No bullets in the gift shop either (wonder why?). Everybody is sooo nice. I think this is the same place our friend Al went for his vacation. Because that mad lady in his pictures is one of the nurses here. She said if I'm real good I can hang upside down like Al did. I have to go now, they let me feed the ducks here and I can use the internet all I want if I'm good.  Oh, can I use you for a reference? It would help when they discharge me, that way they know where to send me on the bus.

Just tell them your Ole Pal Chris from UP NORT, is vouching for you and if they want to send you this way all they have to do is buy a ticket to God's Country, that will get you close enough and you will be out of their hair. How long will you be staying with those nice folks? I suppose it's not as swanky as the house with all the pretty girls that you once stayed in but....... that's how it goes sometimes. Your Ole Pal, Chris